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File 13289434047.jpg - (28.78KB , 625x313 , 189037_10150134459888571_793968570_6637802_5183989.jpg )
11455 No. 11455
I know this is a retread of another thread with a similar title that used to be here, but I finally found something that irked me enough to restart it as a new thread.

I am a writer on DA, and lately, it seems I keep running into this story/art where the mercs from TF 2 decide to settle down and raise babies together, mostly with one character becoming the perfect "mommy" character while their lover becomes the perfect "daddy" to back them up. Sometimes the characters adopt a child, other times one of them will magically have a child (no explanation given as to HOW the hell this is possible). But either variation makes me see red to the point where I start grinding my teeth together.

I hardly think any of the characters in TF2 is going to give up their job to have babies. Respawn aside, mercenary is a job where there is a high chance of dying- how does that leave your kids if you should die? Two mercenaries? Double the problem- and there is no real sign that any of the guys dislikes their job- in fact, they seem happy and enjoy what they do- I don't see them leaving just to make babies. And considering how the Announcer got the Soldier and Demoman, fast friends, to go out and try to kill each other, what do you think she'd do to the mercs who ran off to settle down together and raise kids?

But the really irritating part, to me, is that whole "merc makes a perfect mommy" aspect. These are GUYS. I don't care what you think of the characters, I cannot see any of these people playing "mommy". Not Scout (UGH!), Not Spy (Double UGH!) and for heaven's sake, not Medic or Heavy!

This isn't even going into how this is the 60's, and you'd be extremely hard-pressed to find ANY judge willing to let a child be raised by 1) two mercenaries (for the reasons stated above), 2) two men (children need a female mommy and a male daddy or they won't grow up right was a common feeling at the time. Yes, most people know better NOW, but this was 40+ years ago!) 3) not going to give a child to crazy people, which most of the mercs admittedly are.

On a tangent- I can think of no worse nightmare scenario than growing up with Medic as a father. He doesn't need a test subject for his new medical experiments- he grew his own! And because he's the father, as long as he can justify it in an "I believe I am doing this in the best interests of my child" sort of way, he's very likely to be able to get away with it with the authorities and his neighbors. I can only see this turning out as high test nightmare fuel when it comes to what any children of his are subjected to.

And just really- "Mommy"? I am so not seeing that with ANY of the characters.

What are your least favorite parts of fanon/things that make you cringe- in fic or in art?
Expand all images
>> No. 11456
File 132894555068.jpg - (467.05KB , 798x1264 , tf2winter13.jpg )
I don't know, Spy seems like he'd make an OK dad in his own weird way.

I don't like people who lean too far one way or the other in characterization, Medic being the prime example. I think his interest in the team goes beyond just seeing them as fodder for medical experiments, but I don't see him as team mom or anything- he'd feel bad if one of his men died, but he'd definitely pick at the remains with his bare hands.

"Damn, he vas one of zhe finest soldiers I've ever known..." *Pulls out bonesaw.* "Vell, might as vell see if his brain was misshapen. He's not using it anymore, eh?" *Proceeds to messily cut through the skull, humming a German folk song. At one point or another, he may use Soldier's head as a grisly puppet.*
>> No. 11457

No, not "Team Mommy". I mean, plays the mommy, like, where he stays home baking cookies and homemaking all day in the apron- because that's what mommies do (I'm puking here as I am typing this, because this gets all into gender stereotyping as well, which also strikes an ill chord in me.), while "Daddy" goes out and does Daddy things, like teaching the little sprout to ride a bike and play baseball and go camping and stuff like that.

And I'm not even talking about Spy being a Daddy, but the one in the apron baking cookies and waving his handkerchief as the two "boys" go off for a weekend of camping with the boyscouts and stuff like that. It just makes me gnash my teeth and rage- I'm all for differing interpretations of the characters, but for heaven's sake, these are Men, not a male version of the 50's homemaker Holly Hobby or something, dreaming of the day when they can leave the war behind, settle down with their male lover and bake cookies. I don't see any of the characters being like that, and I have a hard time seeing how some of these authors DO.

It has managed to piss me off more than the weepy bishie uke characters that permeate the fandom.
>> No. 11458
File 132897578422.jpg - (111.47KB , 800x600 , I am Monitoring this Thread.jpg )
I feel like unless too many people get butthurt, I am going to love this thread.

I frequent ff.net, and one thing I see there is excessively pathetic scout/medic/spy.

Excessively pathetic- def. They act like a kicked puppy, all the time. You start to wonder, how the hell did they manage to get hired when they FALL APART LIKE A KLEENEX IN WATER in every situation. ALso they have a terrible tragic background story.

And then you have a “Protector” character. And it’s just mushy mush from there on. It’s sorta cute for a while, but then it just gets annoying.

I don’t dislike all fics like this, they can be well done by the right people but certain ones just grate on me.
>> No. 11459
Usually, I write out my issues with other fanfics. I think Dixie was a good example of that.

What is it with some writers on FF.Net that can't work up a decent description for their fanfic? I rely so much about what I read based on a couple of sentences on the main page. The least they can do is show me a little flex of their muscles. Some flavor text. Anytime someone says "I can't write a description", all I see is "I can't write."

Also--minor pet peeve, but I stop reading stories anytime I run across a non-canonical name. I pretty much live on wiki.teamfortress.com when I write. Being as close to canon is important to me, especially as a fanfic writer. You wouldn't name the Doctor "Matt" or "David". Well, maybe you could. Technically. But I digress.

A lot of Scout porn makes me cringe. Actually, a lot of ScoutxAnyone makes me uncomfortable. Most of the time, he comes off as a weak, fragile teenager. You know, the buck-toothed mouthy guy with an aluminum bat and a sawed off shotgun? If any character gets the shaft for being a poor writer's stand-in, it's the Scout. (Then Spy, Sniper, and Medic. Sometimes Pyro, if Pyro is portrayed as female. Oddly enough, not so much the Demoman, Soldier, Engineer, and Heavy. I wonder why...)

Outside of that, standard grievances. Female stand-ins that could not possibly be mercenaries. Female characters as maids. Overly young characters. Anachronisms without explanation. Characters acting out of character. Characters not attempting to work as a team. What was the name of this game again?
>> No. 11460
Woobification, what a marvelous way to easily generate angst.

When it comes to dark and tragic pasts, I'm sad that with the one character who's confirmed to have one (Heavy - father executed, him and his family sent to a gulag), it's rarely mentioned let alone explored in fics.
>> No. 11463

I wish this was only a problem in one fandom, but it's EVERYWHERE. Even worse are the people who are putting themselves down. "Please excuse this story- it's shit and I can't write." Well, then why would you expect anyone to read it? Or it's some kind of passive-aggressive shit where they want everyone to tell them how wrong they are, which is also irking for a different reason.

If you know the story, as written, is crap, and you feel you cannot write why are you posting it in the first place?! I mean, do you want to spread misery in the world, or something? If it's really so bad, fix it before you post, or just don't post it at all. Is that really so hard to do?
>> No. 11464
Eh, I already blew my load last time and opened a can of worms that probably should have left closed.

Although I guess if I had to complain, I wish people would mix it up a bit more when it comes to characterization. People seem to fall into two extremes when writing our favorite death-tag playing mercs--either as super nice/sweet/angsty/easy or super evil/sadist/rapey/psycho. It's not either/or with these guys, they do have range of emotion even in their voice responses.

(Mind you, I do tend to make the same mistake when it comes to writing classes I don't ave a handle on, it is easier to just plonk down a few generalities and move on. But still.)

Okay, one more thing...I don't know where the usual "cutsey wutsey" characterization of the Scout comes from. He's got an ego a mile high, and the only time he sounds even remotely nice is his "thank you" responses--and that's universal for all of the classes, done deliberately so Medic players could hear some genuine appreciation from the ingrates that they're healing.
>> No. 11470

I don't think I'd ever attempt a Heavy back story fic. When I was in the Hetalia fandom I wrote fanfiction and, I had to do actual research to make the events historically accurate. It was a pain in the ass.
>> No. 11471
Okay that came out wrong. What I meant was it was too much work to try and make everything neat and tidy and non-anachronistic. It just seemed easier to make everything up yourself rather than subscribe to actual historical fact and double check wikipedia every other sentence.
>> No. 11474
It'd be nice to see parent fic in any fandom where the character, regardless of gender, takes in a kid and does both "mom things" and "dad things" with them.

I admit to making up super fluffy things and having sex with characters in my head, and I'm ashamed about it, but I'd never write fanfic about it. I think it's my brain's way of calming myself down when I get nervous.
>> No. 11480
I think everyone daydreams about banging the characters at least once. Or at least the perverted end of the fandom does (hi guys!)

As for myself, I stopped reading fanfiction on ff.net and dA a long time ago for pretty much the exact reasons mentioned above. I tend to browse ArchiveOfOurOwn instead as it's a relatively new site and there hasn't been too much of a weeaboo influx yet. The TF2 section is kinda tiny at the moment but once it comes out of beta I expect more (or, you guys could just ask me to send some invites out that would be cool).
>> No. 11488
It actually really bothers me when people write Pyro as a woman, because it seems like a huge chunk of the fandom uses it to chick-ify her or worse, objectify her. Even if/when she's portrayed in a constructive, quasi-respectful way someone almost invariably ends up boning her (sometimes frequently) if she's not some kind of horrible scarred mutant. When that isn't the case I find the way fem!Pyro is portrayed in most other fics to be pretty insipid, like she's only there to be a set of tits with quirks stuck between them.

I don't mind the characters being portrayed at one extreme or the other, I find most of the cast to be pretty extreme as is. What I don't like is the way some writers deconstruct them from those extremes into weak or flat characters, which happens fast and happens often.

Also, the whole Medic = Nazi/Jewish ex-prisoner thing has worn very, very thin on me. In the case of the latter it usually winds up being an extremely disrespectful and poorly-researched portrayal; in fact it's actually equally appalling in the case of the former, but in a different way.

I'm curious to know what the fandom thinks of people writing fics about their TF2 OCs (and not necessarily the shitty ones) though.
>> No. 11489
OCs like differential on a class or entirely new character all together?
>> No. 11490

These. THESE. I used to have a big problem with the former with a current RP partner of mine (most of her characterization was great, but for some reason, her medics were all really... wimpy), but we finally found a way to resolve the issue.

You know what pisses me off in ANY fandom, but this one in particular? When people put in OCs as an excuse to self insert and then FOREVER ARE SLASHING.

These guys are mercinaries. No one cares about your sobby, angst-ridden past. No one cares if you can't find a place to hide during Humiliation. No one is going to put their neck out for no reason to protect yourself if you're not doing a good enough job to do it yourself! AND GOD, NO ONE CARES IF YOU'RE CRYING.

And god, no one wants to bang your 12 year old ass. No, not even Scout. I'm pretty sure that'd still be illegal. (Considering that he's probably 17 at the least - maybe even in his mid to late 20s.)
>> No. 11491
Torture fics that reek of "too lazy to research duuurp". Especially when the characters bounce back like spring fresh tulips after it's all said and done. Or, conversely, just whine and angst and cry and act terribly OOC afterwards.

These guys ARE mercenaries - I'd imagine they'd try to hide their pain for as long as they can before letting it all out. And even then, there's more things that you can do to emphasize psychological trauma more than "WAAAH THIS CHARACTER WAS MEAN TO MEEE". If anything, I think that a severe social disconnect - especially with a character such as the Scout would be just as effective, if not more so. And it's the more accurate portrayal of conditions such as PTSD.

I did a looot of research while writing Breaking Point, and I feel like it gave it a tone more emotional resonance. 'S all I'm sayin'.

(Also sometimes they don't even get the torture methods right! Or make up their own, laughably ridiculous versions of torture. Just... no. No, kiddies, no.)
>> No. 11492
Oh, also. This is just a minor annoyance, but I dislike it when people only stick with ONE pairing and make ALL of their stories revolve around that ONE pairing. Sniper/Spy is a big suspect - I don't even bother to read stories featuring that pairing anymore - but Heavy/Medic is another big one.

The main reason is because I feel that ALL pairings are crack pairings. All of them. I don't care about logic or reasons - these are all guys who run around and blow each other up for a living. They're all crazy. And you'd have to be crazy to SERIOUSLY (as in, being passionate about why your pairing could work SO WELL and/or saying that anyone who doesn't agree is stupid) ship the mercs. Sorry, it's just what I think.

With a game like this, you can experiment with pairings all you like, and none of them would every be considered "wrong", because there is no right. So have fun with that! An RP that I'm currently uploading with Izzy on /zombies/ has strong implications of Soldier/Spy, for pete's sake! And we love it!

Also, this may come as a surprise, but I THINK that Medic can sleep with Scout someone without cutting them into itty bitty pieces by the end. Not a well known fact in TF2 slashfics.
>> No. 11493
File 132916382243.jpg - (73.24KB , 261x261 , DONOTWANTMedic.jpg )
Actually I love the idea of 2 mercenaries being together and adopting a kid (later on when they get older and can’t work anymore, ofc), especially BLU spy after that smissmas comic; I don't know, now I feel pretty dumb after reading your opinions about it haha, but yes I know it would be impossible.
but hey it's super fluffy and I can't fight that sweet feeling ok?

To be honest I never saw malexmale parenting, just a lot of fem!classes being mommies or, spy being scout’s true father? That didn’t make much sense.

But ok, let me see what else I despise on the fandom:

>Femclasses in general
Because they’re so cute, hot and especially tsundere, argh. If you ever saw a fem!class rp tumblr/fb then you know what I’m talking about. They all fall In love instantly, they’re all annoying feminists and they’re so /easy/, if you know what I mean. Oh and they all get married and pregnant while working for BLU/RED too, lol.

>Most scouts
Because they’re all 14 year old virgins and they’re not /gay/ but yeah they always end up being fucked in the ass.

>Bad use of French/German in most fanfictions
Like seriously, if you’re writing a fanfiction with spy or medic in it, please don’t just go to the fuckin translator and translate like a whole sentence to english because we all know how that ends (or apparently not?).

>When spy starts saying random lame stuff in French
Mon amant, mon lapin, je suis desolé, honhon. Like seriously? I mean… gah. That’s so fucking lame. Please don’t.

>Bad character names
And again spy, medic and even heavy seem to be the victims with horrible names. I know most people google “French/german/Russian baby names” (lol) but some names are just so horrible… and some don’t even make sense. I’ve already spotted people using greek or polish names because they sound French/german or using a family name as the first name.

>BAD plot twists or never ending fanfictions

>It’s the 60’s, so NO technology
Uh. Ok. I know it’s the 60’s but still. I wrote a fanfiction once where there were cellphones, microwaves, and other devices and someone was bashing on it because well, it’s 1964 (If I’m not mistaken) so logically, no cell phones.
Well. Ok. I know /it’s/ 1964, but C’MON – engie makes teleporters. FUCKIN TELEPORTERS. They transport people from a place to another. And you’re telling me that there is NO WAY that cellphones can exist on the tf2 timeline? Jesus.

>Extremely dumb heavy
He’s not that stupid nor does he speak Russian as often as most writers think. Do you even play the game? Yes his English is extremely bad but he doesn’t speak Russian on the battlefield. And he doesn’t speak like Hulk either.

>BLU/RED being the same person.
No. Just…No. They’re all different from each other. Maybe not physically because that would mean Valve would have to design different skins for each class but c’mon. And there’s this confusion and mixing about the tf2 plot like BLU spy dating RED scout’s ma, BLU scout having 6 brothers like the RED scout, RED engie called Dell as the BLU one, … etc.
I know there isn’t much info about BOTH two people in the same class but… yea.

>Nazi medic
To me this idea will never, ever, be ok. Do you know how insulting this is?

>fuckin necrophilia
The way some people write gay romance about tf2 makes me feel sort of disgusted and confused because some characters act like fucking teengirls. It makes me wonder if this people ever watched real gay pr0n or have any idea how real gay relationships work.

And I think that’s it. Sorry any typo.
>> No. 11494
Entirely new characters altogether, like when someone just ditches part or all of the original cast.

>Bad use of French/German in most fanfictions
This bothers me, as I speak both (one better than the other, though). But it follows into the pet peeve I have with characters speaking in different language. If they have something to say in their mother tongue, I prefer it if the authour writes it in English and follows up with "...he said in German/French/Russian."

>Yes his English is extremely bad but he doesn’t speak Russian on the battlefield.
He spits out fragments of Russian on the battlefield but I don't think that implies that he doesn't speak it often on his own. If there were another teammate who could speak and understand it (most likely Spy) I reckon he'd speak Russian to them, just between the two of them. I can see him talking to pets/animals in Russian as well.

This. Jesus christ.
(p.s. I love Breaking Point, thank you for keeping it real.)
>> No. 11496
I do see good femclasses every so often, or at least femclasses that I consider alright- wearing no makeup, personality of the male class but in a female body, unfettered by gore, not getting along with everyone on their team. I don't see characters stabbing members of their own team, though- maybe Medic for "research", but nobody intentionally murdering each other.

I don't see EVERY pairing as plausible, and honestly, I only really draw Heavy/Medic because it's the closest I see to having any canon weight to it. I'm not really a shipper otherwise.

I hate Nazi Medic too, and honestly, having him as a prisoner isn't as bad, but I can see why someone'd get offended. I have a friend whose Medic was Jewish but essentially stayed under the radar and nobody found out- but he wasn't in the war, either. TVTropes speculated that he used the mad scientist reputation to scare the soldiers and they left him alone.
>> No. 11497
File 13291709819.jpg - (84.10KB , 542x354 , HappyKawaiiSpy.jpg )
>Yes his English is extremely bad but he doesn’t speak Russian on the battlefield.
>He spits out fragments of Russian on the battlefield but I don't think that implies that he doesn't speak it often on his own. If there were another teammate who could speak and understand it (most likely Spy) I reckon he'd speak Russian to them, just between the two of them. I can see him talking to pets/animals in Russian as well.

Yes you're right. I imagine that spy speaks most european languages or at least that he understands them (being european myself I can easily understand other european languages such as spanish even though I don't speak it). Anyway, I meant that most part of fics I read Heavy starts speaking russian all the friggin time when only medic seems to do that (as in speaking a foreign language to his teammates, not worrying that they won't understand him)

Well then maybe it's just me; I really despise fem!classes. The less female characters the better for me, haha.

As for nazimedic, I actually intended to say that it sort of sucks to see every german characters in a fictional story or game being related to nazis/jewish.

Oh and by >fuckin necrophilia I meant fuckin y_a_o_i. tf2chan trolling me.
>picture sorta related?
>> No. 11498

I honestly wish there were more Jewish characters in anything in general- all I ever seem to see, if at all, is really bad stereotypes.
>> No. 11500
I feel you on that, and I hate it. My understanding of Judaism is fairly poor, but if I was going to write a Jewish Medic, especially one who had endured a death camp, I'd try to avoid stereotyping him.

I guess my big peeve with the fandom is that people don't do any freaking research 8 times out of 10.

I admit to having written a fem!Scout, but my RP partners let her slide because she runs along the lines of what was described in >>11496 quite strongly. I think it's just a matter of downplaying the fact that she's a, well, "she."
>> No. 11502
I could help you on at least basic Judiasm- holidays and traditions and stuff.

And same here. My Femmedic only acted explicitly "feminine" off the field and with her two closest friends. Otherwise, she was essentially identical to my Medic headcanon. I don't think it's fair to dismiss all femclasses as bad. Even the ones with "wimpy" personalities that I see are less and less bad clothing-wise, at least.
>> No. 11569
I found the perfect and horrible example of the type of female classes I was talking about.
Well actually this is the 10 class but it still counts.

"Hallo! I'm the Messenger of the Red team! You may call me Mess. I'm Thai/Chi and probably speaks your language too.

I couldn't post all the 88 posts because it would be TL;DR and tf2chan as a word limit so I picked my favourite facts about the messenger class:

The Messy Facts
1. The Messenger is a she…
2. The Messenger’s right eye is 50 shorter sight than left 20 due to reading while laying on her side a lot.
4. The Messenger is talkative towards her comrades but completely opposite to strangers.
5. The Messenger had ADD but she was unofficially treated by her classmates and replaced her condition with anti-social.
6. The Messenger took 7 years for her Bachelor degree on Communication Arts, main reason: cutting class, later locked herself in her own room and get out to finish her last year.
7. The Messenger didn’t attend school by her own choice. She wanted to go to acting school.
8. The Messenger’s father is a high-ranked officer in royal army and her mother is a great housewife. Sadly, she never get along with her parents.
9. The Messenger had an issue of anti-social and listed as hikikomori for not leaving her room for 2 years , just before she figured out the reason of her to hate society which lead to herself getting involved with the gangsters rampage in center Bangkok on 1957. All 35 death of the gangsters associated with her actions were all listed as Self-defense. This issue later developed into Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She finally noticed how unique she is to other apes around her.
11. The Messenger was married once, 3 years before she works or RED. The marriage lasted long enough for her to get the green-card. Later she easily passed a American citizenship exam. A week later, her ex-husband committed suicide, reason unknown. She had her name changed afterward and her record on RED is Single, not Widow.
12. The Messengerhas . She doesn’t believe in love and she constantly use others’ feeling towards her to the best of her benefit and wishes death upon everyone useless to her.
13. The Messenger’s favorite subjects were Psychology, Philosophy, History and Languages.
14. The Messenger refuse to make use of her braincells on other human-beings unless it benefits her.
15. The Messenger’s forever favorite song was The Beatles’s ‘Yellow Submarine’ as she referred yellow to Asian and submarine as the world, you can guess the rest. For classical, her favorites are; Mozart’s Lacrimosa, Vivaldi’s L’estate and L’inverno, Beethoven’s and Chopin’s Marche Funèbre, Brahms’s Ungarische Tänze #5, Carl Orff’s Carmina Burana.
19. The Messenger’s shoe size is 6
20. The Messenger is C-cup.
21. The Messenger never had a driving license.
25. The Messenger has over 25kg of coke in her procession which she used occasionally without her roommate’s knowledge about it. It was snatched from who she called ‘The Chinks’ back in NYC, the reason why she fled towards Mexico in the first place.
26. The Messenger had her name changed at least 3 times.
33. The Messenger joined RED mostly because she was broke and wouldn’t risk her ass selling her Coke and give ‘The Chinks’ the trail.
34. The Messenger doesn’t smoke but drinks occasionally until she’s drunk enough to have fun. She bewares of getting wasted because she would start sobbing her life issue on others which she refuses to think about.
35. The Messenger’s only times of not smiling is when she’s asleep or when she snaps which is very rare.
36. The Messenger never regret her action and too cold to remember the faces of those she had killed.
40. The Messenger weight almost 170 pound during 2 years of self lock-down. It has reduced ALOT during her work-out before the big rumble.
41. The Messenger has a collection of marksmanship awards, she collected during her 4 years on graduate school. During her interview, she said she practiced everyday for 2 years by shooting the kids next door from making noise too close to her room where she refused to leave even though she doesn’t like Sniper Rifle.
42. The Messenger never let anyone know her real age or birthday. She’s listed as 24 in RED’s record.
49. The Messenger learned English when she was very young, hoping some American soldiers would drop by her backyard, to her traps.
50. The Messenger learned German, Italian and Japanese because she expected the axis to have won WW2… Sadly, she was very disappointed. She also took advance German class during her year in university, hoping they would raise again.
51. The Messenger learned Korean, hoping someday she could advice them not to do the same mistake Japanese did with Russia during WW2. Sadly, there was no use of it.
52. The Messenger can speaks Cantonese, Mandarin, English, German, French, Thai, Spanish, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Polish, Finnish, Italian, Russian, Latin, and over 30 dialects.
53. The Messenger learned the rest of her language choices off the books during her lock-down.
54. The Messenger didn’t bother with Vietnamese because she knew civilized American apes wouldn’t be able to win a war against the forest monkey. She was right.
58. The Messenger never had any best-friend. She stopped considering any other human being a friend ever since she entered Jr-highschool.
60. The Messenger had both 2 feet in reality.
61. The Messenger look at religion as logical examples. She doesn’t believe in any even though she was practiced as a buddhist during her childhood.
62. The Messenger had been called from both RED and BLU… but she favored RED over BLU ‘cause it’s red.
64. The Messenger does get laid once in a while…
65. The Messenger sometimes questions her own goal of life… if she has any.
67. The Messenger only had 10 dollars left when RED contacted her.
69. The Messenger is easily irritated with lack of manner.
70. The Messenger is reminded by scout of her two younger brother, who she used to pick on lot when she was young.
74. The Messenger has a huge collection of antique toys.
75. The Messenger buy pornographic magazine and share it with soldier[!?]
78. The Messenger likes hanging around with batshit insane, they entertain her.
81. The Messenger’s first kiss was when she was 14. It was an experiment and it was disgusting.
83. The Messenger lived her first week in 2forts resupply room, the second week in Medic’s office, later suggested by Spy that soldier was looking for a roommate..
85. The Messenger caught herself on fire for playing batshit insane game with Pyro and Demoman… drunk…
86. The Messenger still has no interest on getting involved in any type of relationship other than acquaintance level.
88. Messenger just finally falls in love with someone during the beginning of 1968… at the age of 34. It was so foking dramatic…"
>> No. 11571
File 132976461418.png - (16.26KB , 291x300 , thisisonlyafractionofmyragetowardsthispost.png )
Sometimes I wish I could meet the people who write these things, just to set them on fire.
>> No. 11572
File 132977651372.jpg - (35.89KB , 500x500 , 307c1bd3e8473e6c435c30d8215b12e8.jpg )
"50. The Messenger learned German, Italian and Japanese because she expected the axis to have won WW2… Sadly, she was very disappointed. She also took advance German class during her year in university, hoping they would raise again."
>is 24
>was in college during WW2
>It's the 1960s


I won't waste my time reacting to all of the stupid mess on this.
>> No. 11573
Angst. Just like most things, a little bit done well can possibly enhance a story, so yeah it can be well done, but it just really irks me when writers like to throw lots of angst and guilt onto a character where it's just incredibly out of character, or there's no good reason for it to be there.

As a worst case scenario I reference a story I saw once featuring Spy, where he was shy, had no friends, hated himself, hated how he looked, was anorexic, had chronic insomnia... the list went on. It seriously made me gag. It was one of those things that was just so bad you couldn't stop reading. But I had to make myself eventually, or I was just going to have to be ticked off at the world for allowing such a thing to exist.

Obviously most fics are nowhere near that awful, but very out of place angst just really irritates me.
>> No. 11574

>The Messenger had ADD but she was unofficially treated by her classmates and replaced her condition with anti-social.

>had ADD but she was unofficially treated by her classmates
> The Messenger can speaks Cantonese, Mandarin, English, German, French, Thai, Spanish, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Polish, Finnish, Italian, Russian, Latin, and over 30 dialects.

This is what really grinds my gears, I tell ya what. You can't be diagnosed with ADD and have it magically get better. Trust me, I've tried.
>> No. 11575
Are you serious? I'm sorry but I'd like the link for that fanfiction, I'm in the mood for some laughs.

Don't feel upset, really - because it's not worth it.
People just keep adding problems and diseases to their characters like it was something really cool and deep. Maybe at some point in their lives someone told them they had ADD and that they could speak a couple different languages or like this >>11573 anon referred, they really are anorexic friendless people but the thing is, this people need to separate themselves from their characters or else the result is going to be absolutely ridiculous.
>> No. 11577
Right here:

Just a small glimpse of the horrors waiting inside:
"The pit of his stomach felt like the eye of a tornado, full to the brim with an aching hole that could be called emptiness. Feelings of loneliness and questions swirled round in the middle, acting like the funnel while sadness and slight anger created the top layer. The whole lot was serving to rip him apart.

Spy wrapped his arms around his stomach, resisting the urge to gasp. He knew this was depression but he was in too deep to resist; his lack of eating was leading to anorexia and he was at the point where he would cry into his pillow every night.

Quietly, of course."
>> No. 11579
My favorite part of this story is the ass-kissing Reviews. So glad I found TF2chan for my fanfics.
>> No. 11580
File 132980004267.png - (134.18KB , 550x660 , 1328129904836.png )
Almost every badfic on FF.net gets at least a dozen suck-ups loving it.


I was waiting for "He reached with a pale, trembling hand stained by tears wiped away for the his radio. He turned the dial with single-minded focus until the familiar sound of Linkin Park crackled out of the speakers."
>> No. 11581
File 132980188919.gif - (278.90KB , 500x256 , 1329777852320389.gif )

I read the whole thing.

This gif represent how it made me feel.
>> No. 11582
File 132980340286.jpg - (18.84KB , 184x184 , 130515572513.jpg )
Maybe not fanon, because even the stupider parts of fandom would probably get this right, but:

>> People talking about Saint's Row 3, asking who plays the male Cockney voice
>> Tell them Robin Atkin Downes did (fun fact: he's also the Medic in TF2)
>> Get three different responses telling me he played Sniper, not Medic, or plays both
>> John Patrick Lowrie is nowhere in the game
>> No. 11585

Honestly, I must agree with you there. The one that got me was where she is in lockdown (presumably in school) for two years, yet still finds time to gain AWESUM SNIPUR SKILLZ by shooting at the kids next door. Yo, SWAT teams will get your ass for that, hon.


Nor does ADD magically "become" Anti-social.
>> No. 11590
This is why I cross post as well. I feel that at least I'll have more critical eyes observing my work here. Granted, it's mostly B-grade monster schlock, but that's what I like to write.

Although, there are a couple of fellows on FF.Net that crack me up. Any time I see 'Faux Promises' or 'Cyber Rex', I can trust the review. They routinely correct weepy-eyed romantics, and God bless them, because I certainly don't have the energy. I did have a nice gal that discussed women's issues with me as well in one review (and an ensuing messaging chain), so that was nice as well.
>> No. 11591
My cringe is Medic smut that could have any other "doctor" character from another series pasted in and it would still work. I mean... every cut-paste-able fic bothers me but especially with Medic and especially with smut. Why would you write generic doctor/patient smut? There are so many tools in TF2 that could make it unique. I don't think I've ever read smut with the Medigun. If that exists, please point me to it.

Scout also bothers me. He's an egoist, not a whiny teenage homophobe. He doesn't reject lifestyles, he just thinks his is the best. I don't see him being up in people's faces all the time, accusing them of being fags and stuff. I've never been to Boston, is there something about it that makes this natural?

At that, this IS the 1960s... why is it always Scout having a gay problem? If anything they should all feel a little threatened in the sexuality if one of them turns up gay. Instead of Everyone/Phobe!Scout, how about some anti-homo feelings from one of the older, really manly dudes? I would pay to see Soldier freak out. If anyone would have a good reaction to a gay it would be Soldier, totally.

Or Sniper! He is a total fail at being the Australian stereotype of manliness and his daddy doesn't love him for it so he compensates with bad language and rudeness. I imagine he would be a bit reluctant to play himself as a poofter.

TL;DR-- /begin rant. TF2 characterization is too weak. /endrant.
>> No. 11593
>I don't think I've ever read smut with the Medigun. If that exists, please point me to it.

Totally read something like that once. I loved it. I forget where though, but I think it was here. Possibly in the archives...?
>> No. 11594
I don't even get how she got a degree. Didn't she left school? It's so confusing, ergh.

I'd say that's valve's fault right there. We don't know much about medic, aside from meet the medic. He's never in the comics nor does he get that much attention like the other classes in the updates (like soldier or demo).
I just don't like when they make medic all sadistic and shit (I mean, he is sort of sadistic I mean like abducting other classes and making weird sexual experiments...haha), I see medic as a really nice guy with a weird sense of humor. At least that's the idea I got from meet the medic.
>> No. 11595
>hasn't seen Soldier have bad homophobic reactions to gay teammates in fanfic

What fics have you been reading? If Soldier isn't going to be one of the gay characters, people usually always make him homophobic, especially toward Heavy and Medic (Cat Bountry's fics, anyone?). Even if Soldier does end up being gay myself, he usually ends up hating himself for it from what I've seen.

So I'd wanna see someone try to pull off the whole team homophobe without using the obvious suspects of Soldier and Scout. I'd say someone like maybe Heavy or Demo or Sniper, but with exception to Demo, Heavy and Sniper are both part of popular OTPs so it'd be conflict of interest for most writers.
>> No. 11596
Every time I read a fic with soldier he suddenly turns gay, has sex and ends up being a homophobe and acting like nothing happened.
>> No. 11597
You guys are obviously a) noobs or b) just reading the fics where Soldier is supposed to be gay ie Helmet Party.

Seriously, in my two years of being here, Soldier being a bigoted homophobe is not a rare occurance.
>> No. 11598
this happens alot in real life (I know that very well)
>> No. 11599
File 132985574585.gif - (301.40KB , 165x115 , 132443319961.gif )
>> No. 11600
Considering that here in America, every few months or so there's some anti-gay conservative politician is in a scandal where he fucked a dude, I believe it to be pretty normal too.
>> No. 11601
Wasn't funny.
>> No. 11602

>My cringe is Medic smut that could have any other "doctor" character from another series pasted in and it would still work. I mean... every cut-paste-able fic bothers me but especially with Medic and especially with smut. Why would you write generic doctor/patient smut? There are so many tools in TF2 that could make it unique. I don't think I've ever read smut with the Medigun. If that exists, please point me to it.

Let me point you to Teratomarty's fanfictions.
If it's written by him, chances are it's amazing AND medically accurate.
>> No. 11603
The severe lack of hats. Most writers basically turn the characters into OCs, but no one ever wears anything other than their default hat. Why not? You have hundreds of other options.
>> No. 11605

Adding on to this, I'd love to see some other maps, weapons and maybe game modes being represented. I've read many a TF2 fic, but the maps I see most often are 2fort, Dustbowl, Badlands, and Well (mostly for plots that involve the train in some way). As for game modes, the guys only seem to be capturing intelligence and points. I think a fic with a Payload could be great if done right, or maybe Arena mode depending on the status of Respawn in the story.
>> No. 11607

I've yet to see one of Doublecross. It's a perfect setting! It's night, lots of hidden areas, dark corners, etc. Perfect for Spies.
>> No. 11609

Someone needs to draw pinups of the team/well-done genderbends wearing nothing but hats.

Bonus points for Medic wearing nothing but the plague doctor mask.

Perhaps people need to learn to write/draw non-fandom smut. Just because it's drawn or written doesn't mean it has to be fanart/fic- I've seen a lot of writers use fandom to hold their hand when writing when they'd probably be better off doing original stories.
>> No. 11610

Not just a degree... a graduate degree!

What I want to know is why she needs Sniper skills and whatnot when she's a Messenger. I'm not even going to ask WTF they need a messenger for when most of the TF2 bases aren't that large, and Solly isn't standing back observing the battle and sending Ms. Overgualified and her 60lbs of cocaine to relay orders to people (he's not their superior, nor in charge, and he's usually right at the forefront of battle anyway.

I mean, what does she do? Runs up to the Sniper's nest to tell him the Spy says he's ugly and dresses funny, and does he want to respond? Okay, I know I said I wasn't going to try to explore that, but apparently my mind can't resist.


I could easily see a man thinking that as long as the other guy was sucking him off (or something) and the homophobe didn't touch the other guy, he wasn't really gay, or something like that. Or the magical "it's okay as long as we don't kiss, or as long as I'm the one pounding his ass- as long as I'm not the one being penetrated, I'm not really gay,"-type thinking
>> No. 11612

Never mind. I found the page. Yes, apparently that's what she does- delivers messages between the passive-aggressive people on her own team. Give me strength.
>> No. 11613
>Bonus points for Medic wearing nothing but the plague doctor mask.
>Bonus points for Medic wearing nothing but the plague doctor mask over their crotch

>> No. 11616
Lol. Why would she even have cocaine with her.
>62. The Messenger had been called from both RED and BLU… but she favored RED over BLU ‘cause it’s red.

Should I just go tell her how horrible her character is?
>> No. 11617
I googled this chick and found her tumblr

Don't make the same mistake I did. It's not worth it. It'll just leave you with a case of indigestion so strong, you won't even have the will for trolling.

Not that I was going to, anyways - that'd make the chan look SO unclassy.
>> No. 11618
It's not like I was going to troll her - more like... an angry critique?
Hum I have her tumblr - her art is really good. Shame.
>> No. 11642
What bothers me is the cliche that homophobic Soldier must've been sexually abused as a child to end up the way he is. Or any class really. It would be an interesting twist if all homophobes were really gay but sometimes people really are just bigoted to begin with. Besides the whole homophobia-having-a-Freudian-Excuse angle comes from debunked and frankly offensive stereotypes anyway.
>> No. 11644
>Bad use of French/German in most fanfictions
I clap to this. I mean okay sometimes it can be used and i forgive if it has just a few flaws. But in generell i like more the idea that the author writes it in english for all people to read who can´t speak german. Besides i don´t have anything if they let say medic say once in a while one word in german rather in english, because it is really hard to remember all the english vocabels and sometimes i let one german word slip, too if i speak. Except petnames. The horrible use of medic and him saying german petnames. German is complicated with it´s grammar. And one german petname used wrong ruins for me everything. Like him callinng Heavy meine Liebe. Yes it means love, but a man would say this to his woman. If he would call his man love than he would say mein Lieber, which is more used in a sense to reprimand someone rather in a loving way(even Meine Liebe is more going into this way). If Medic would ever use love as petname than i would suggest the german word meine Liebste/my love (woman) and for a male counterpart mein Liebster. Still we have here on the chan many people who speak german and i believe if someone would really bother to know something he could just ask in the workshop thread for help.

>Bad character names
I don´t know of spy much, but i totally buy "bad" medic names. Because i have here a book of favourite common german names around 1940 and earlier.
And they are all somehow horrible. As example Gottfurcht. Even a awesome name like Beowulf was suggested there, too. It got some chuckles out of me. Still sometimes they choose names which weren´t even in this favourite namelist, but are just ridiculous to take. What became out the favourite Wolfgang, Hans, Horst, Fritz or Johannes? Timeless classics. I never see these names in a fanfiction. They need ever to be fancy. But than again i would clap to someone who would call him Samuel, Daniel ect., which would ride along with my favourite headcanon that he is a non practiting Jewish.

>2. The Messenger’s right eye is 50 shorter sight than left 20 due to reading while laying on her side a lot.

Pfahahah. I don´t even bother to read further than that, because eyes don´t fucking work like that except if she uses to read in Twilight books which have a letter size of 7pt. and than it would take a course of years to really show.
>> No. 11645
File 133019791018.jpg - (270.93KB , 600x864 , tf2___naughty_stuff_by_yuikami_da-d4qop5a.jpg )
>Soldier must've been sexually abused as a child
oh god, no. my baby

OH I completely forgot about the mein leibe thing. But that's probably because I don't read much heavy/medic. Not only it's not the correct way to say it as it's super corny.

>Wolfgang, Hans, Fritz
It's always one of this three names. ALWAYS.

>The Messenger
I forgot to post this. Her art is really good, I don't know why she's ruining it with her horrible OC.
Anyway, here have some neko fem!class x 18 year old sniper bieber.
>> No. 11647
File 133021381482.png - (63.32KB , 249x211 , watfaec.png )
>Anyway, here have some neko fem!class x 18 year old sniper bieber.

Captcha: Confus'd tteesCap
>> No. 11649

I always figured if he was, it was because of the social climate at the time or because he grew up during WWII and his dad had seen WWI, and he was all "Men should be macho and show no fear and that's why you can't be feminine" or whatever.

But I never write child abuse or rape into any of my stories as a rule unless it's based on something in a fandom where canon explicitly hints at it.
>> No. 11650
*was homophobic
>> No. 11656
What annoy me most about this fandom, is whenever someone tell me something is canon... and it's not.

I hate it when someone whine/talks about tentaspy. Bitch, he's not in the game, why should I care?
The same thing with the medic/heavy romance. I hate it when someone says "They are clearly in love, it's canon".
No. it's a joke. It's cool and all if that's what you want to think, but don't go force it down my throat.

Also, I hate how i can almost never find any serious fan fiction.
There are so many serious/awesome scenarios you could write from this game.
Yet all fan fiction is about love and romance. The closes thing, I've seen, to any kind of conflict in a well written fan fic, is the "Romeo and Juliet" scenario.
>> No. 11658

I don't think you're gonna go anywhere (and by that, I mean, other fandoms) and not have slash and shipping dominate the content of fanfiction. Not saying it's wrong to not like that stuff, but it's kind of one of those hard truths of fandom. Considering that fan writers aren't paid, I can't really blame them for writing stuff they enjoy.

Serious is kind of an odd word to use, too, 'cause I have a hard time taking TF2 fics that take themselves seriously, seriously. TF2verse is a crazy, kooky world from what canon we have. I always find it kinda weird to read fics that try to place TF2 into our real world. If they try to stick to realism too rigidly, it suddenly becomes unbelievable, funny enough.
>> No. 11659
I got to thinking about this topic the other day (again), and I realized I had another pet peeve with some TF2 fan stories. Oddly enough, it was something I noticed when I tried reading that Twilight rehash novel from Edward's perspective that got leaked. I made it about eight pages, then gave up due to nausea. First time I ever got sick from a book.

There is a serious problem with a lot of romance stories regarding "the others." You've probably run across an instance of this. It's a trope where Character A (usually the Sniper or the Spy) doesn't get along with his teammates because of some characteristic that makes Character A unable to bond with his teammates. Usually, it has something to do with his intellect, his sexuality, or his quietness. This always makes me ask several questions:

1. Has the character even attempted to bond with his teammates?
2. If the incident went horribly, why did you not write that scene? (It would make for fun drama!)
3. Why is his [insert trait X here] so divisive amongst a group of quirky mercenaries?
4. Why does only one other person share this trait?
5. Why is this person almost always on the other team? (Isn't that a conflict of interest?)
6. If their significant other is on the other team, why hasn't the Administrator stopped their relationship by now? (I mean, did you know about the WAR! update?)

This probably relates back to my issue with "team members not working as a team". It is a huge problem with many TF2 players that I've run across. There are tons of people that do not think with a collective mindset. They don't think about furthering a company, a band, a group in their school. It's all about what they want--narcissistic impulses. Which, hey, it works great in a capitalist economy. It does not work for a team.

So, back to my issue. A lot of times, a character may be ostracized for some quirk. On the other hand, they may be misreading their teammates and looking down on them. Like, "Oh, look at this loudmouth braggart. He can't possible understand my emotions. I'm going to cork up and not ever communicate with him." This works horribly. Communication makes or breaks a team. If someone tries to be a rogue agent, they will get their asses handed to them, no matter what their skill levels are. If they're truly so special that they can kill everyone in the other team without any help, then why does RED or BLU even bother with hiring anyone else?

This was my first irritant of many with the Twilight series. So much of the main characters' time is spent feeling that they cannot possibly relate to the plebeians around them, and that their intellect or introversion makes them superior and special. This is a villainous way to think. Some people have simpler needs, goals, or mindsets than others. This does not make them shallow and by extension evil. Greed and selfishness makes people evil.

tl;dr It's only through constant fighting, joking, and interaction that a team can function and grow. When someone starts thinking about how special or unique they are, and how their quirks and abilities make them incompatible with their company, they endanger their team. The name of the game is Team Fortress 2. I wish more people would write with that in mind.

But perhaps I'm over thinking this.
>> No. 11660

But serious doesn't mean it can't have any form of humour (at least that's not what it means to me) It simply means that it have a real plot (not just character X loves character Y, drama ensues) and actually wants to look like a real piece of fiction.

Also, I think the point you raise about other fandoms is pointless. It's like saying "becurse others can't have nice things, then we can't either".

Also I don't care, All I'm trying to say is i'm really tired of stupid fanfiction-
>> No. 11669
>"becurse others can't have nice things, then we can't either".

Man, if there's one thing about the internet that frustrates me to no end is people inferring stuff that wasn't even said.

I was pointing out that your particular gripe is something that can be applied to all fandoms, when this is a thread for gripes about TF2 specifically, and that trend is expected and propagated throughout fandom culture. Note that I said expected and not accepted. 'Cause I wasn't telling you to accept it. If anything, I found your assertion "pointless" without the explanation of what makes the presence romance in the scope of TF2 less legitimate than something without. If I wrote a story about Soldier and Engineer being buddies shooting the shit on the battlefield (which I have), why would that be more valid than the stories in which I make them actual lovers? Technically, there would be the same sorts of conflicts in a fic that was dealing with a friendship, so I don't think romance is the sole issue here, and your post didn't really offer an explanation other than it being your opinion.

Fortunately, DF38 wonderfully elaborates on the inherent flaws of putting strictly romance in the world of TF2 because it takes away things from the team dynamic that is at the core of the game canon. While I can understand writers wanting to focus on their favorite characters (Hell, I'm notoriously guilty of that), the characters get isolated (Like with Sniper and Spy and the writer deeming them to be loners, so they end up being alone together) and often times, the drama comes from pitting certain teammates turning against the "lovers", which further shits on canon of these mercenaries being able to work as a team.

I always find it weird when in fic, Soldier genuinely hates and actively works against his non-American teammates, or Spy being untrustworthy and willing to backstab his own team for his own gains. With the former, I know Soldier isn't actual military, but the military is very much about working as a coherent unit, and would think that Soldier could at least understand that the needs of the team would outweigh his own. And how could Spy function with a team who could not trust him, as trust is invaluable when it comes to team-building.

I'd definitely like to see more exploration of the TEAM part of Team Fortress. I think it kind of says something about how people play the game, where no one really knows how to fulfill the team part. (I wonder if character customization in-game has made that kind of worse because now people are focused on making themselves look unique and different.)
>> No. 11670
You madame, just inspired me to write something I've been meaning to do for a long time.
I always thought about a plot for a team fortress movie yes I know it sounds dumb. But by movie I mean something...realistic? And not around just one character (or two/romance).
I wish there was someone I could discuss my ideas with though, my friends don't know how to criticize so, yeah.
I'll start writing as soon as I can.
>> No. 11671
The only gripe I can think of at the moment regards Spy. I prefer seeing him as a character where you seriously don't know what he's planning or thinking about. Obviously this would be different if he's the main character or if the story takes place in his point of view, but if you're planning on doing something big with Spy, try not to have it be so obvious what he's planning. It's one thing knowing that he's obviously up to something, it's another thing to be able to pin point his exact plan in the first few paragraphs. It just lessens the fun for me really.
>> No. 11674
I don't think you've looked hard enough. I can think of a story off the top of my head (that's not mine) that has to do with pure, unadulterated drama and in-team dynamics, with no hints of romance thus far. It's in /fanfic/, and I think it goes by the name "Team Meets The Team". There's another one - the widely popular "Respawn of the Dead" by Cat Bounty (one of my favorites of ALL TIME), and I, myself have written on Called "Breaking Point". Of course, you did say "ALMOST never", so maybe I just proved your point, by only being able to come up with a whopping three examples.

Anyways, I think the inherent problem with making a well-functioning TEAM Fortress 2 fic is the hang-up that... Well, conflict is the driving point in a story. If the team works together well, and there's no "dark secrets" or "brooding member who always lurks in the shadows", than a lot of conflict gets cut down. It'd just be a story about them working at their job and... doing their job well, most likely, and... Well, that's about it.

Not that I'm saying conflict would have to be nonexistant! It's just that it'd be harder to come up with, and lord knows that sometimes it's just plain EASIER to take the "broken and brooding" way out. Still, it's an interesting concept, and since I've hit a block with my own babu, I might look into giving Teamworking Fortress 2 a chance.

Oh, fuck. I totally forgot how shit I am at fight scenes. SHIT.
>> No. 11706
Ditto. There need to be stories like this. Honestly I think I really good writer could make it even from the Spy's perspective and you still not know exactly what he's planning. I've wanted this so bad that I started writing one myself. I stopped when I remembered how bad I am at serious plot development. It was going to be a back-and-forth between the two spies; a sort of competition, always trying to one-up the other, to gain the upper hand. The whole while both of their teams were oblivious to all of it.

I kept thinking "I want it to be like... like..." I knew there were stories out there to which I could compare what I wanted this story to be like, but it kept alluding me. Finally I realized the number 1 story that was probably in the back of my mind was Death Note. That's when I really dropped the story like a hot potato. I knew nothing I wrote would ever compare to how deliciously twisty that story was, and I would always be comparing mine to that and feel really discouraged.

This is why I can never write any story of any significant length; I keep comparing my writing to all my favorite stories and then get discouraged. =/
>> No. 11707
>>11594 Agreed. I always think of him and Engie the opposite of how people seem to think about them, with the general "everyone's friendly uncle" typecast for Medic and Engie as more of a mad-scientist loner.

>>11595 >11597 I dunno. I mean like, as a focal point of a story. When I read Solly slash he's never violently against the idea. It could very well be I'm reading all the wrong stuff. Or maybe my idea of homophobia is differant-- I mean fear, not just predjudice.

>>11602 I read 1Sniper1Jar and I um. I'll have to work myself into the suggestion, but I will try. Thank you.

>>11613 That, combined with a "Full Monty" parody.
>> No. 11708
One thing which bugs me about fics in general is the notion that they're permanently stationed at one base, or they go right from one base to another with no downtime. It's established in what little canon there is that they aren't always on missions and have some semblance of lives outside of mercenary work for RED and BLU, but that part isn't looked at too often. Not even with something like Scout lording his job over his brothers - if Demo gets paid five million a year in 1968 dollars, and Scout earned anything close to that that, he'd be insufferable at Thanksgiving dinner.

>>11660 >>11674
I've done that. With 'Put On Your Face' I wanted to see if I could balance Pyro's desire to integrate with the team while simultaneously keeping what's under the mask private. Not so much 'broken and brooding' as 'this is none of your goddamn business so stop asking and have a nice day.'

They're difficult to choreograph and coordinate but I love it when I can pull off a big party scene with everyone hanging out and talking to each other and generally enjoying the company.

I've thought about it, and while a lot of the hats are fantastic, there are some I wouldn't use in a fic, like the Nanobalaclava or the Dead Cone - I think that using something like those, which are promotional items from other games entirely, would disrupt the internal consistency of the story. Stuff like the Exquisite Rack or Dr. Whoa, on the other hand, would fit with that.

It's kind of like why I don't want to write a story involving a payload race: that mode works perfectly for a video game, and I have no idea how I'd pull it off in the sort of fics I'm writing.

If someone else did, though, I'd love to see what they come up with.
>> No. 11717
I agree about the monetary part. Five million 1968 dollars is equivalent to 32.5 million today. The mercenaries are filthy rich and I'm hard-pressed to find stories of them doing anything in their spare time with that money...
>> No. 11737

Well, if Heavy's claims are to be taken seriously, he probably spends a good chunk of it buying ammunition for Sasha et al. And it's vaguely suggested that they buy all of their own loadouts, whether ordered directly from Mann Co., or bought/acquired via other channels and then modded.

Other things I see the mercs doing with their buttload of money:
- Buy your own island, castle, politician...
- Building a vault, filling it with money, and trying to swim in it a la Scrooge McDuck
- Blowing it all in Vegas
- Sending it home to parents who think you're a crazed gunman
>> No. 11739
Whenever I read a bad fic I imagine that it was written by Scout. It makes me feel better and occasionally leads to much amusement if the fic is really excruciating.
>> No. 11744
>> No. 11745
I really only hate how people think they're the greatest fan artist/fic writer when they only, ONLY, write/draw romantic, wubby-dubby shit for two characters. It's all they ever write, and when requests are open all they accept is that same pairing.
I don’t hate Sniper/Spy, Sniper/Scout, or Heavy/Medic. In fact I rather enjoy them. (STOP LIKING WHAT I DON’T LIKE does not apply here.) I just need some variety once in a while y’know? Doesn’t mean you should stop writing/drawing them I just want you to get better at writing/drawing the other classes too. I hope this doesn’t sound bitchy.
I also hate when people have multiple dumblrs and instead of posting art in their ‘art only dumblr’ you get pages of “My life is so hard.” In ALL of their blogs. Unfollow. Even if I like their art.
“Wahh, you’re being critical of my stuff. Wahh.” Shut. Your. Fucking. Face.
>> No. 11749
File 133116186525.jpg - (89.16KB , 640x480 , 100 out of 10.jpg )
>I really only hate how people think they're the greatest fan artist/fic writer when they only, ONLY, write/draw romantic, wubby-dubby shit for two characters. It's all they ever write, and when requests are open all they accept is that same pairing. I don’t hate Sniper/Spy, Sniper/Scout, or Heavy/Medic. In fact I rather enjoy them. (STOP LIKING WHAT I DON’T LIKE does not apply here.) I just need some variety once in a while y’know?

In fact, ALL of it times forever. Marry me, you slut.
>> No. 11750
>Parts of Fanon that make you cringe

-people don't like saxton hale enough
-people getting angry when someone ships medic with anyone else other than heavy
-when someone says that jarate is a mental desease
-not everyone likes tentaspy, learn how to live with it - there's no need to get angry just because someone doesn't like tentacles
>> No. 11757
This is more of a rant.

I'm watching someone on Dumblr who flipped out when that Gif. of Spy getting headshotted got more reblogs/likes than a video of Kony 2012 he reblogged.

Just, what?! Why the fuck do you care? Everyone on Tumblr has already reblogged that video like a thousand times. Why are to telling us you're 'disappointed in us' you fucking dick? Do you just care about becoming more popular than Minttu? You have good TF2 art but that's no reason to be a fucking asshole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people are finally starting to give a fuck. But you look like an ass when you assume people just don't care about a subject when you have no idea if they've already reblogged something.

TL;DR: TF2 artist is mad when nobody reblogs Kony 2012 from their page.
Also, It annoys me when TF2 artists I initially like turn out to be pretentious assholes. Or are just altogether unpleasant to talk to.
>> No. 11758
and kony video thing? I have no idea of what that is LOL
>> No. 11759
The Kony thing is this campaign to raise awareness about this guy in Africa who's kidnapping kids and turning them into prostitutes, child soldiers, his own personal army, etc. He's a scumbag, and everyone only just now seems to be noticing, I guess. There's a lot of controvery now because the video makers are making a lot of money off of stuff that should be going to the charity, and they're supporting an army with multiple accusations of rape, and there are reports he's not even in the country they think he's in, and some say he's actually been dead for five years, etc. etc. Big internet thing right now, basically.

Parts of fanon that make me cringe are when they modernize the stories-badly. Saw one once on ffnet (Eek) that had things like iPods, cellphones, and they used lingo from the 80's, yet said it took place in the 60's, and everyone listened to music from the 50's.

It was just ridiculous. I don't mind so much if they want to modernize the story, but at least make it consistent. If it takes place in the 80's, then make it all from the 80's- technology, music, pop culture, everything. Don't pick and choose without doing any research.
>> No. 11760
PM me @ christophexgregory.DevArt.com

I really want to unfollow because he's such a fucking dick.
>> No. 11761
Some of these I don't mind. Sometimes someone isn't really a shipper, so they only like one pairing. I don't mind Tentaspy (although I don't like how rape-y he gets), but I don't understand how he came about.

What about the Earbuds? They do have iPods of a sort.
>> No. 11762

Fuck that, I'll post the shit you're too afraid of making public you pussy.


There, change the D's to T's. I don't know why you hate the pictures of him rubbing mail all over his face.
>> No. 11763
I never understood this sort of mentality. Comparing fanart to serious real world issues is apples to oranges. It takes 5 seconds to look at that Minttu .gif and go "hey this is neat" and like it or reblog it, while the Kony thing takes a serious lot more thought. Also neither of them are related in the slightest!

It's similar to when I see people whining about how fanart gets more attention than "original" art. Well yeah, that's going to happen. People like things they're already familiar with and it's easy to tap into that audience rather than building your own.

It's just the nature of the beast. There's no need getting worked up over it, and just because a .gif of Spy gets 2500 notes doesn't mean people think it's more important than real humans dying.
>> No. 11764

You don't need to type it as Dumblr. The wordfilters on websites were removed a while ago. Tumblr works just fine and dandy.
>> No. 11765
This kind of situation (posting something someone out of the chan did and shit) is what makes people think tf2chan is a terrible place with terrible people. Not sideing anyone,just foreseeing more unnecessary dramu.
>> No. 11767

Sorry Furei, I'll make note of that for next time.

All the people who I've heard hate TF2chan hate the gay orgies or they were 13 year old weeaboo twats who's bullshit nobody put up with.
And the Sniperdile/CrocoSniper freakout.

"Wah, nobody comments on my art! I'm not as well known as ____! I'm going to be an asshole to my followers! That'll make them like me! Stop calling me out on my shitty behaviour! Wah!"
I pretty much hate the entirety of the TF2 fandom, with TF2chan being the only exception.
>> No. 11768

I agree with Furei. Don’t take tumblr drama to TF2chan and don’t take ’chan drama to tumblr—or anywhere else, for that matter. Ranting about a person anonymously and off-site is ungentlemanly and cowardly behaviour. If you really want to make this a fandom issue, start a thread about it on tumblr, not here.


Honestly, guys, I think you’re asking too much. Most people in the fandom are not professional artists or authors and all of us have other concerns that take priority over drawing/writing. For many, fandom is a form of escapism from real-life stress and real-life issues. We’re here because it’s fun and because it makes us feel good, and if this is no longer true we leave the fandom and find something better to do.

I do agree that challenging yourself artistically to improve your skills is important (that’s why I love the honest critique here at the ‘chan), but most of us don’t have a portfolio to fill. Of course we’re going to focus on the pairings we like most, especially if we don’t have a lot of time because of work/education/family to spend on writing/drawing.

Instead of saying ’I hate how people only write/draw their favourite characters’, you should appreciate them writing or drawing at all. The alternative isn’t them writing/drawing for other pairings, it’s them leaving the fandom. I’m sure we can agree that quality fandom contributions are preferable to, well, nothing, even if it’s only for one or two pairings.


I’m sorry you feel this way. I am a part of the fandom on tumblr (writingcyan.tumblr.com) and it has been a wonderfully rewarding experience for me to feel the synergy made possible between artists, authors, and gmodders by the unique format of that site. Most of the writing I do these days is inspired by art or comments I see reblogged on my dashboard, and similarly I’ve received fanart for my stories from artists who’ve seen them on theirs.

The ‘chan is a great place for honest critique, but I have in the year I’ve been here never made a single friend. All my fandom friendships have happened through tumblr. So I really can’t agree that the fandom outside of TF2chan is horrible. I like both.
>> No. 11771
File 133155642485.jpg - (72.37KB , 279x328 , solly.jpg )
>> No. 11776
I feel like people don't give Scout enough credit when they write him. Often he's written as an over-the-top drama queen who's easily prone to screaming 'fag' or 'queer' like he has a bad case of Tourettes. I think he has a world of depth that just isn't explored as much as it could be. At the very least I think people could be a bit more creative with the insults. If he's going to have a potty-mouth make it an inventive one.
>> No. 11777
Hey, I'm not going to take back what I said. I know it's selfish and pointless whining, but that's kind of what this thread is about. I like Team Fortress 2, as in ALL of the characters involved, and when all I see is someone writing the same story with different, slightly minor events, it just gets boring fast to me. If you're not serious about writing, that's fine! Just don't get a big ego about your stupid collection of 50+ Sniper/Spy dramas.

And, yes, I'm totally aware of how petty / bitchy / what-have-you I sound, but I didn't come to this thread to be politically correct. I'm SO srs about writing, and in my fucked-up brain, if you're not as serious as I am about writing, WELL, WE'RE JUST DONE HERE. If you say you ARE, well then I better see some goddamn experimenting with shit 'else I'm outty - variety is pretty much the best thing ever.

Again again again, this is all my opinion. No one get on my case, please - I'm just talking about things in general - not pointing any fingers or saying that everyone else who doesn't agree with me is wrong forever - just how I decide on what to read and what not to read.

Ooh, I like this.

Anyways, you know something that I'd like to see, actually? I'd like to see a silly Spy character. I really would. I feel like that guy has a lot of potential for being humorous (his insults and laughing files are enough to convince me of this), or at the VERY least, the straight man in a comedic duo, but it's kind of hard to come across.

I kind of view him in my mind as Frasier, as played by Kelsey Grammer. Thinks of himself as elegant and refined, but is really just an over dramatic man-child that likes expensive things and does NOT like sharing (unless someone is sharing with HIM.)

I would write the SHIT out of that, had I any time (work has been riding my ass lately, and Breaking Point has ensnared me yet again), but I thought I'd mention it, in case anyone else would want to take a crack at it.

Holy shit, maybe I should sleep more - I should like a rambling hobo. Welp, off to work. Grumble.
>> No. 11783
All my this.
>> No. 11784

Fuck dammit, posted too soon.
Anyway, I often feel that Scout gets the short end of the stick when it comes to creative backstories, personalities, and interactions.
No one seems to give a shit about Scouts in general when they're not fucking someone or each other.
>> No. 11794
With the greatest of respect, Cyan, I disagree. I followed you and Mael to Tumblr because of the writing you posted here on the 'Chan.

While I agree that the fluidity and versatility of Tumblr's format is a lovely thing, I must give the 'Chan the credit of being a great place to post and read fic.
>> No. 11797
I don't think it's possible to roleplay a canon character. Not just in TF2, but in anything.

Or maybe I'm bitter, because I rarely agree with others' headcanons and I hate when RP'ers get famous and people start treating their depiction of a character as fact.
>> No. 11798
This thread reminds me of fanfic criticizing thread which has been locked.
>> No. 11801
File 133216318117.jpg - (23.45KB , 433x368 , youdontsay.jpg )
>> No. 11807
Can you gives us an example?
>> No. 11810

Mostly on Tumblr RP's. Some long-running RP'ers (not delibrately) cause their fans to insist that their OC's name and personality is that of the canon character, even if the OC is drastically different than canon.

I have no problem with people whose headcanons are different than mine, but the fans do not speak for Valve...with the exception of people who have directly worked for Valve, like Makani, Minttu, LaroLaro, etc.
>> No. 11812
Thought I could take away some good advice from this thread but now I'm pretty discouraged against writing. I'm sorry I don't speak French, Russian, or German.

>my peeves
>meet the fems
however people interpret the chars is fine by me- assuming they're based off the videos, in-game dialogue, and comics. Anything too off the mark bugs me. That said there's still a lot of room to flesh out the characters and I'd like to see people do more than have them perform the usual song and dance in different pairs and settings.
>> No. 11813
Yeah but I'd like to see an example. I guess some OC's get a bit too famous but I don't think they're that famous to actually become canon for the fandom; that's why I asked you for an example.
And what. I had no idea they worked for valve!

lol. Look, it's not like we're telling you not to write - we're actually giving a lot of help for you writers that don't speak french/german/etc - There's no need for all that negativism, we're not even criticizing your work (as far as I know, or at least I hope we didn't use your work as an example).
It's ok to write a fanfiction but at least do your homework first, you know? Because the people that do speak french, german or russian won't see the romanticism or whatever it is you're trying to express - all we'll see is a silly,strange and most times, lame dialect.
>> No. 11814
The first two make comics, and Laro's done a ton of items. Shogun, Deus Ex, and of course the Black Box set.

I don't want to single anyone out. Maybe I shouldn'tve mentioned it.

Don't give up!
>> No. 11825
I don't get it

maybe the artist was making some sort of joke
>> No. 11826
Messenger is a scourge.
Is all you need know.
>> No. 11845
what the hell is a scourge
>> No. 11854
The bane of one's existence, a terror or threat, a nemesis.

She be a bad thing, is what he's saying.
>> No. 11863
Most fan-made characters make me want to shove a pain train down my throat.

Especially the female ones.

But what really grinds my gears are the ones who claim they're going to go to art school and be a super successful game designer but never seem to draw anything but Kawaii-desu artwork and/or Sniper and Spy fucking. Or being a super special cuddly family with 3 kids.
>> No. 11864
>or Sniper and Spy fucking
I'm ok with this
>> No. 11865

Just because they post all their sniper/spy art doesn't mean that they also post all their class-related work, too.
In all honesty, outside of my drawing class, I never really ended up showing ANYONE all my pictures.
>> No. 11868
Where can I read his work?
>> No. 11869
>> No. 11874

How about,instead of being unkind to someone for not knowing a single not-very-widely-known fanfic author when they asked a completely legitimate question, linking them to TeratoMarty threads in /fanfic/ or /afanfic/? Hell, it only took a few minutes to find his steam id and as such, his y!gal which has some medic stuff as well. http://www.y-gallery.net/gallery/teratomarty/teamfortress2/

You're seriously not making me hold you in any higher opinion, and you've never been.
>> No. 11876
Except I've seen about ten users do that at some point, and its hardly the rudest thing to do, and then going "Well this hardly makes me think well of you, not that you were any way" is way bitchier.
>> No. 11877
except whenever i see the name tworefined hered, they are more likely to be a whiny bitch to anyone out of their clique than anything. get this whiteknight shit outta here.
>> No. 11879
File 133298091238.jpg - (43.18KB , 341x313 , 1257255204311.jpg )
I could really tear this down, but Im not gonna side track this topic.
>> No. 11880

Vendetta much?
Anyway, let's get this train back on the tracks.
As a fan of scout/various and spy/sniper, I see a lot of super-kawaii animu pictures of them on tumblr that just makes me want to barf. I see this happening a lot with medic, too. It's not really new, though. I guess it happens because... compared to the rest of the team they're slighter of frame? Which of course immediately equals uke to the necrophilia fangirls.
I guess flamboyant medic annoys me a bit, too. As much as in-denial scout annoys me and others. I see it so often it just bores me.

Oh, and how often demoman is left out or forgotten. Holy shit, it's kind of mind-boggling just how much everyone seems to ignore him. I think the rebuttal that 'valve does, too' is pretty weak, as well. There was the WAR! update (I feel sometimes like I'm the only person who remembers this) and then the Halloween update this year... it's not like he doesn't receive new weapons and hats/misc as often as everyone else, either. To say that his character isn't fleshed out perfectly is stupid, too. That never stopped the entire chan from falling in love with medic before his MT video.
And I mean, I don't get it. He's the one character with a background in the supernatural (besides soldier, who lives with a wizard). Imagine all the fun, spooky shit he could get up to and already HAS.
>> No. 11881
File 133302397444.gif - (457.70KB , 320x240 , meh 2.gif )
>> No. 11882
File 133302519234.gif - (484.08KB , 173x129 , gif victory.gif )
(Oh, shit, my captcha is in cursive how many years has it been aaah)
You bring up several interesting points here. Sometimes I think people tend to leave Demoman out because he's black. No, not in the "HURR RACISM" sense, either - quite the opposite. I'm thinking so many people are afraid of accidentally doing something wrong (or, and this is a big one, offensive), that it gets to be too much for them to deem themselves worthy to take on sometimes.

I, personally, love Demoman, and I'm trying my best to include him in stuff, but at some point, it gets hard trying to make it not come off as forced. And, despite having a Scottish boyfriend, his accent continues to give me grief. (I don't think this is a reason people don't do stuff with him, though, because Sniper's accent gives me just as much trouble, and people still write and do stuff with him, so...?)

Happy day. I just realized I do about as much stuff with the Sniper as I do with the Demoman, thus validating my excuse for myself. Tea and crumpets for everyone!
>> No. 11887
We must rectify this.

Sniper/Demoman. It could work.
>> No. 11889
File 133309216826.jpg - (254.18KB , 500x500 , tumblr_loee1ulVL71qme09no1_500.jpg )

I like Soldier/Demoman, myself. Or really Demoman/anyone. He's an underappreciated character, for sure! That's why I love the pic of him I had KG Bigelow draw- Naked and toting two barrels of booze, showing off his muscles.
>> No. 11890
Dude, Sniper/Demoman is one of my OTPs - I just can't write anything with it for shit. That one Sniper/Engie/Pyro fanfic is already causing enough grief.
>> No. 11894

Sniper/Demoman ever since I read Respawn of the Dead. They're such bros. Bros with benefits?
>> No. 11897
File 133316547421.png - (71.08KB , 256x256 , me-gusta-heavy-5497_preview.png )
>> No. 11908

I promise you, dear TF2Chan, I shall someday write a Sniper/Demo story the like of which will set your collective panties on fire.

(I do recall at least one Sniper/Demo story, so it does exist somewhere.)

I am watching this thread like a goddamn hawk, I tell you. So much relevant information... My personal pet peeve is this: the colossal flame wars that erupt over stuff like Heavy/Medic being canon.

On one hand, saying it's absolutely not canon is just plain ridiculous. Valve are MASTERS of the ship tease and the suggestive elements have been pointed out again and again.

On the other hand, Valve are also not stupid. They know that making it canon would likely piss off a lot of people unnecessarily, like those who ship Medic with someone else, those who dislike the idea of romance in a wacky shooting game, those who find the idea of two dudes being romantically involved threatening to their insecure sexuality...

So yeah, long story short, they'd be nucking futs to either confirm or deny something like Heavy/Medic being canon. They've taken the genius third option, in fact, which is create a Schroedinger's Shiptease, as it were - where Heavy/Medic is both canon and not canon at the same time, and the only people who can collapse the waveform are wisely keeping their mouths shut in the pursuit of more money.
>> No. 11909

>Schrodinger's Shiptease

I think I've been looking for this phrase all my time in fandoms.
>> No. 11937
I have a few, which I'm guessing aren't the most popular of opinions.

First one deals with the arguments over Pyro's gender. It's not about the gender itself, but the fact that people will get prissy about it and immediately denounce other possibilities or interpretations. All sides have people who do this, and it annoys the shit out of me.

The other thing is the people who get a bit to gun-ho about the realism behind it. No, I'm not saying like, being in character and things like that. I mean, I know TF2 is set roughly around the 1960's, but it's not our 1960's. It's a world where they have telepoters and re spawn machines. A world where shakespeare rocket jumped, Abe Lincoln was a pyro and where the entirety of Australia is populated by people with moustaches. So when I hear people sometimes arguing about how "realistic" certain parts of the setting should be, I cringe a little. No, not trying to justifying things like Ipods and modern shit in fic. But I just wish people would account that this isn't OUR 1960's we're looking at.
>> No. 11952
Just don't write the accents then, that's the best help I can give you. Throwing in Scottishisms like "lad" or "lass" is fine, but have you read Marvel comics with Moira MacTaggart or Banshee? It's more effective to just let the reader supply the accent himself or herself.
>> No. 11953
I have also found that the level of pedantry in this community is unusually high.
>> No. 11957
Or one could just read Donny's posts. Hehe.
>> No. 11961
Smart arsed mutha fucka!
>> No. 11966
Don't you mean, 'Ye ye, haggis haggis, lass, kilts and cabers'?

>> No. 11975
Isn't it canon that they have iPods? I mean, what else do those earbuds plug into? Even though I can't think of any situation where mentioning an iPod in a fic wouldn't seem kind of silly and gratuitous...

The one thing that really drives me nuts is when people can't get Heavy's syntax right. Go play Poker Night at the Inventory, he talks a lot in that. You'll see that, for example, he doesn't say things like, "Heavy like shoot gun." No. He doesn't talk in the third person like the Hulk. He just drops articles (a, an, the) 99% of the time. And I think he mostly doesn't drop pronouns. If you just paid attention to how he actually talks and read up a bit on Russian grammar, this wouldn't have to be so hard.

Also, I hate it when people leave out Demo. Demo's great. I'm in a TF2 RP right now and we have the greatest Demo. Stop leaving him out. It's because he's black, isn't it? Personally I want to see him paired off more often. He's damn sexy. Doesn't everyone like a guy who treats his mom right? And there's an entire subgenre of romance novels about Scotsmen. Just saying.
>> No. 11982
seconding the heavy's syntax argument. i'm not much of a stickler for it but i see people write his dialogue dismally--like you said, trying to write him in third person like the hulk or something. listen to heavy's sound clips for a while before writing heavy's dialogue and you'll get a good idea of consistent articles he drops and speech errors he makes.
>> No. 11987

I guess that happens because some of the writers don't even play the game OR they just like writing dumb Heavy

we'll never know
>> No. 11988
File 133470585835.jpg - (43.64KB , 485x296 , record player portable.jpg )
They plug into portable record players.
>> No. 11989

Mmmmm a romance novel about Demoman. Delicious.

I've actually been wondering myself lately what it is about Demoman that makes people ignore him. I'd like to think theres a better reason than "he's black" but thats probably just my wishful thinking.

For me it's because I'm not sure how to resolve his disposition and make him sound like a real person in my mind. I can't really relate to him the way I do the other classes and I really don't know how to bring in all his aspects into one complete personality. I really wish there were more examples of him in fan fiction or at least some head canons to get me thinking.

I'm not really sure how to write drunkenness ether, because iIreally don't drink that much.
>> No. 12005
The Mac comic was retconned. But since earbuds are an in-game item I assume music players of some kind exist. I always thought of Walkmans. I had one when I was a kid, it was kind of shitty and unreliable so it makes sense to me as a Mann Co. product.
>> No. 12006
Harr harr. Allow me to reply in your own native tongue.
"Moose moose, lumberjack mountie, syrup, hockey, Bret Hart, what we arguin aboot?"
>> No. 12007
You forgot poutine. And 'eh'

Also, who the hell is Bret Hart? 30 million Canadians, and he's the one you pick? (Assuming he is Canadian).

Captcha: Envirys Scotland. Jesus Christ that's ironic.
>> No. 12010
I would have said Justin Beiber, but thats just too cruel. Also, the captcha is trying to tell you something, so quick, figure it out!
>> No. 12028
File 133554123573.png - (279.75KB , 700x450 , tumblr_ls472rKIk31qdwbcp.png )
I have expressed my psychotic fucking hatreds against this fandom many times and Yeah I said I stopped coming here, but fuck it whatever can't resist the chance to talk shit.

Kilo drew this picture for me and it kind of made me feel like Special Ops isn't a complete waste of time for a while. Yes I am guilty of making an original self insert type character. Yes I have been writing the same gay ass Fun Time w/ Helmuts story for like ... 3 years now. It's only adding to my mid-life crisis, but it makes me happy on occasion. That's why I continue to try and tolerate other fans and their dumb bullshit. It's only fair.

To be completely honest with everyone, I hate pretty much everything about this fandom except for the typical gameplay because gameplay only involves killing and explosions and the only drama involved is some eight year old furfag crying about me killing them repeatedly with my meaty heavy fists because I am not that good at the game and heavy is the only guy I play.

When it comes to roleplaying and fiction I am always irritated by it and try to avoid looking at it or touching it in any way whatsoever (except for a select handful of people that have proven themselves to not be retarded) But every once in a while somebody brings it up and I either go on a rager or I am inspired to make fun of it in art or fiction.

I've looked over some of the grievances here and I agree with most of them. I also want to add a few if I may

1. gratuitous pairings that don't involve drunken shinanigans
2. effeminate characterizations
3. anime stylings
4. Original Characters
5. Tentaspy
6. The whole 'Medic was never a Nazi' argument
7. Mercenaries settling down and raising children
8. alternate universes
9. Mercinaries having names
10. Mercenaries talking about their feelings
11. Lame girly storylines what don't involve violence
12. uncharacteristic passive aggression
13. engie-bees and other such nauseating insects
14. 'KGB, your art is great, but your ideas are stupid'
15. the complete lack of scientifiction
16. fluff
17. humorless psychosis AKA chronic bitch syndrome in the mercenaries which somehow leads to gay hugging and crying
18. sudden emergence of conscience in mercenaries which somehow leads to the laying down of arms and gay hugging and crying
19. references to contemporary culture
20. unexplained appearances of transgenderism
21. Poorly constructed Parody farts of stereotypical fan faux pas that are an obvious secret exploration of said faux pas.
22. Ass patting
23. Scout being anything other than a self worshipping asshole who loves vagina
24. Totally sane and balanced and perfect in every way engineer
25. Bi-sexual spy
26. Hunter S. Thomson
27. Big Teddy Bear Heavy
28. Complete lack of understanding story structure
29. Outrageous accents
30. scenarios in which mercenariesw suddenly start swooning and grinding like cock-starved whores the instant they 'accidentally' see or touch another man's parts
31. Lack of profanity
32. the imposition of the fan's morals
33. graphic, but grossly inaccurate depictions of the human body

okay that's all that comes to mind at the moment.
>> No. 12029
Jeez. That is a big list. What DO you like about the fandom? Hehe.

Since I've seen it here, I want to ask, actually. What the fuck is an Engiebee, and where did it come from?
>> No. 12030
File 133555811149.png - (176.48KB , 600x837 , 6377520047_ce912d0804_o.png )

>>29. Outrageous accents

Do you mean gratuitous phonetic accents? Because I fucking hate that shit. I already know what the characters sound like, I don't need all of Sniper's dialogue to be spelled like "OI OIM THE SNOIPA G'DAY MATE, OIM GUNNA KILL SOM SPOIS", or for Medic to be "AUCHTUNG ICH BEEN ZE MEDIC UND YETZ ICH BEEN HERE TO GIVE YOU EIN EXAMINATION MEIN LEIBER HERR HEAVY" It just grates on my nerves and I have have to pick through their sentences slowly so that I actually understand what the fuck I'm reading.
>> No. 12031
Yeah, I'm guilty of this. I try to lay off the o-insertions into the Sniper's dialogue as much as possible. The Medic and the Spy, though? Pfft. Charge me with First Degree Phonetics Abuse.

I did think about issues with the Tentaspy today. It seems like three similar plot lines are being used repeatedly. This is what tends to happen:

1. The Medic becomes Doctor Insano and makes a Tentaspy because why not and SCIENCE! This usually results in a horrified and tortured Spy eventually escaping from or killing said Medic.

2. The Tentaspy has always been a Tentaspy, but has a crippling fear of the noisy bastards above his residence (usually a sewer). This is usually interrupted by making a new friend. And by making a new friend, I mean screwing them.

3. The Tentaspy is a complete monster and kills the hell out of everything until someone kills the hell out of it.

Coincidentally, number three is my favorite. But I digress. Could something else be done with such a creature? I suppose it doesn't help that it's a sea monster in a desert setting, but I digress.
>> No. 12032

Once upon a time I toyed with the idea of writing a Tentaspy origin fic. The crazies behind spy's gadgets were doing some bad sciency stuff on a spy, trying to discover ways to get him to cloak and disguise on a biological level. So they injected him with mimic octopus DNA and he mutated into the Tentaspy we all know. They were going to terminate him, but he escaped into the sewers. It was all very, Superhero origin story.

Anways, I hate the pyro gender argument, honestly. Pyro is Pyro, a tubby, childish arsonist. I don't need Pyro to have a gender. In fact, when I write Pyro it takes on my identities depending on how I'm feeling. Sometimes she's a woman, sometimes he's a man. Sometimes Pyro is a space alien, whatever I feel like.
>> No. 12033
I am so ridiculously guilty of typing out my accents. Especially wizh Spy. 'e is just so easy to write! Sacre bleu!
But then I speak French, too, so I can do the accent right. A lot of people overdo it. And I actually have two Spies in my RP- both French, but one has a completely different accent, and it shows through the writing. Spy 1 is a very subtle, sometimes dropping the H's at the front of words. 'otel, instead of hotel. Usually it's only with words that are close enough to their french equivalent to retain the accent.
Other Spy is all about the Zh sounds, but he keeps the thick H's, and pronounces them entirely.

I usually draw the line at writing Scout's accent out, though, Fuhgedaboudit. Sniper's, too. Oi'm not a big fan. But I'll clip his words. Write how he's goin' t'the store, and such. Apostrophes are my friends.

I don't think it hurts the story, if you do it right. If it's overdone- that's when it becomes too much. When it's inconsistent in the accent is even worse, I think.
>> No. 12034
Tried submitting "Schrodinger's Shiptease" on TVTropes. Is not being accepted well. Apparently too subjective and/or close to plain old Ship Tease at the moment.

The only one I see people really overdo is Medic, to the point where some fangirls on Tumblr make his dialogue nigh-unreadable.
>> No. 12035
File 133557516172.jpg - (98.78KB , 500x484 , tumblr_m0wuqbAQYf1qd3dbi.jpg )

There's this one tumblr out there where the concept seems to be that Medic is reblogging fanart, and it renders the Medic's accent like this:
>No der iz a lot of great blogs out der but I rweally appweciate your kind wurdz. Aww danke my dear frwend!~

>Aww danke!~ I rweally luff your art~ Keep up the gwreat wurk!~

>I phweel bettah now.

HOW DO YOU EVEN PRONOUNCE THAT. Basically, if your accents are any more phonetic than Cat Bountry does 'em, they're too phonetic.
>> No. 12036
File 133557718314.png - (400.76KB , 537x405 , beesmall.png )

A long time ago (2008-2009) on Rats_Tequila, for some reason or other, we sat there and assigned classes insects. Soldiers were ants, Pyros were dragonflies, and Engineers were bees. Hence, Engiebees. They were given bees because they build nests.

One of the older users is charged with their creation, but I can't remember his/her name.
>> No. 12037

I thought it was because Engineer is from Bee Cave, Texas.
>> No. 12038
File 133557872048.jpg - (46.74KB , 437x599 , EngieCardBack.jpg )
IIRC Kilo made them. Though Engineers and Bees in general have almost always been associated. and also Spyro in a fanfic once thought Unspec(the stuff used in Medigun and Dispensers) was made by bees(because the dispenser is warm and fuzzy and buzzy) or somethin' like that. That is when I made this: http://www.gamebanana.com/tf2/sprites/3121#Post_6119128
>> No. 12040
>I have expressed my psychotic fucking hatreds against this fandom many times and Yeah I said I stopped coming here, but fuck it whatever can't resist the chance to talk shit.

>To be completely honest with everyone, I hate pretty much everything about this fandom

>When it comes to roleplaying and fiction I am always irritated by it and try to avoid looking at it or touching it in any way whatsoever (except for a select handful of people that have proven themselves to not be retarded)

As a relative newcomer to the fandom, I’ll admit your post pissed me off, KGB.

I love your art and I love your Helmets story and have commented on the thread several times (it was what made me interested in Helmets in the first place), but it’s disheartening to read your rage against the entirety of the fandom.

As a writer, it pisses me off to be called retarded. It pisses me off that you won’t even read my stories before dismissing them as dumb bullshit because I like the ‘wrong’ characters. I do research, I try to stay true to the characters, the setting, and historical facts. You won’t find any grossly inaccurate depictions of the human body in my stories.

And it pisses me off to see other writers shy away from the fandom and from TF2chan after reading your post. No wonder this place is so dead, when someone most of us look up to as one of the Founding Fathers of the fandom makes a reappearance only to tell us that we’re retarded and shouldn’t even try. That the quality of our writing, the complexity of our plots, our characterisations, the hours of research on historical and technical details, don’t matter because we’re new, because we write for the wrong pairing, because we want to try out a new idea or revisit an old one.

Because we are not you, or Kilo, or Cat Bountry.

You’re all amazing artists and authors, but please. Give us a chance to prove ourselves, don’t call us retarded and dismiss us out of hand. We want to participate in this fandom because of you, not despite of you! But right now it feels as if we are.
>> No. 12043

Well, you're not giving us a name, so I don't really know how good your stories are. Give us a link and I'll read 'em over and give some comments.
>> No. 12045
It started as a little mermaid crossover thing and then turned into a tentacle sex monster.
>alternate universes
eh,why not? There is some stuff the canon doesn't allow for, but would be neat to see.(further back in time,mobsters, unionverse,etc)
why so serious about a harmless thing nobody takes seriously?
>Hunter S. Thompson
yeah that's an owl thing.
>> No. 12046
>buttfrustrated because of assumed attacks
also, I'm suspecting by "founding fathers of the fandom" you're talking about old chanfags. We mostly came from /v/, so if you can't come to terms with that, best look for a hugbox elsewere. like Deviant art or Livejournal.
>> No. 12047
File 133563128246.jpg - (144.18KB , 302x476 , 1232480760719.jpg )
>>12040 I enjoy team fortress 2, but not the fans. This is because of people like you.
It's great that you enjoy my work, but I never asked you to like me, and I'm not exactly required to automatically change my entire outlook and like everything that you like. I'm not your girlfriend.
Ultimately, since you've decided that I'm specifically angry at you and not the stupid shit that you're into, and THIS IS WHY NO ONE COMES TO TF2CHAN ANYMORE I don't owe you any kind of apology either.
Right now you're just confirming everything I believe about the average fan brat.
If you think you're so talented, prove it and send us a link or give a name or something. don't get your panties all in a bunch because some asshole on the internet doesn't like what you like.
I'm supposed to be 'working' right now so forgive me for being blunt.
>> No. 12048

To be perfectly candid, who cares if KGB hates everyone and everything in the fandom aside from herself? There are a number of people like this in the TF2 fandom, as is the same with every fandom, and do you know what I do about them? I ignore them. If they don't like what I like, (or don't like me, heaven forbid) then clearly, what I like isn't for them and I have no reason to become upset because they're pissing on it or pissing on the people who like it.

There will always be some ass-pimple out there who declares that she is the One True Medic Fan and that anyone who doesn't depict Medic to her personal specifications is a blight on humanity. So what? People are entitled to act like this, just as everyone who feels otherwise is entitled to dismiss their opinions and move on.
>> No. 12049
File 133563232770.gif - (386.51KB , 256x179 , All of this.gif )
This is what we need to return to,really.
>> No. 12050
I probably should try to be nice when I make sweeping generalizations about things peopled do what makes me mad. Having a rage fit doesn't accomplish much aside from sucking all the air out of the room.
>>12045 I'm kind of an orange box purist, sorry. It's just easier for me to make lists 'where appropriate' instead of blowing up people's threads with WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT LURK MOAR. Constructive criticism takes too much effort.
Tentaspy I just don't like and there's really no way for me to take it as seriously as some fans do in their fictions where he's making friends and all that gay stuff. Tentacle rape is not really my thing, and neither are half-animal people. That's probably also why I don't care too much for engibees. Cute stuff just aggrivates the fuck out of me.
The Hunter S. Thomson thing was kind of a joke and not at the same time. I like the man's writing, but I've done psychedelics before and it's not as ground breaking as to warrant worship of the entire genre.
>> No. 12051
File 13356329847.gif - (498.32KB , 480x360 , 1302720705_bekon.gif )
Everybody wins! YAY I'M SO EXITED BUT IHAVEtogetbacktoworkbye.
>> No. 12052
I do think the mercs aren't total monsters (see how they treat the kids in the Halloween/Christmas comics, how Demo treats his mom, etc.). I always figured they only murdered people who actually pointed guns at them. Not because they're necessarily nice to everyone, but because it's not worth the effort. They have to at least get along, because teamwork doesn't work otherwise.

So I don't think they're fluffy, but they treat their friends the way dudes usually treat their friends. And racism doesn't really work if you have this big important job you have to work on.
>> No. 12054
Well, KGBigelow's the one who's got a pointless tenth class OC whose damn title is "Special".

And KGBigelow's the one who once posted a rant on the subject of the obvious heterosexuality of everyone except Engineer, Solly, and I guess Medic?


Because Scout, he of the "if you were from were I'd from, you'd be fucking dead," doesn't behave like some limpwristed stereotype. Because, yeah, sure, a young gay man from Southie, the land of violent crime and Catholicism, would act anything other than macho. No, actually, he wouldn't.

And Heavy is just too damn manly, in KGBigelow's opinion. Even though so are Solly and Engie. And even though he likes giving a ridiculously phallic object a kiss and a cuddle and yelling about how he loves another man. And I know she wrote this screed pre-Uber Update, but look at the way he gazes fondly up at Medic while Medic pinches his cheek, I mean come on.

And I dunno what's so clearly hetero about Sniper in any way, really, since straight guys haven't cornered the market on horrific personal hygiene, and they certainly haven't on arguing with your dad over the phone...

I guess you could say that since Demo claims to have been shagging Medic's wife, he's straight, but KGBigelow likes to characterize Medic as gay in the chop out a guy's brain then serve him for dinner kind of way, so you can't really have that and say Demo is straight by virtue of shagging Medic's wife. Plus, being gay doesn't automatically give you sartorial taste, you know, so I'm not buying the "he wears a flak vest over jammies to work so he's straight" thing.

And anyone who's seen Legally Blonde: The Musical knows that depending on the time of day, the French go either way! I know that's not an argument but if I'm going to be ridiculous and try to argue with someone who's clearly going to just get mad and go "well it's just my opinion, I don't need to justify it to you cunts, have some goatse", I may as well go all the way ridiculous, right?

I'm not saying they're all gay, what I'm saying is that for all of them there's no definite answer, and anyone who's trying to argue so-and-so must be gay or must be straight is just barking out their own ass.

Also, KGBigelow complains about Helmet Party fluff, then goes ahead and draws a shitload. And also likes to fantasize about Heavy committing necrophilia upon her OC? Who's also so super-tough she can carry him around? I dunno what's up with that. The point is, if you're worried about KGBigelow judging you, don't, because she'll judge you no matter what you do, and she's got a fucking tenth class OC named Special who can carry Heavy over her shoulder because she's a super-special valkyrie.
>> No. 12055
File 133564199677.gif - (513.18KB , 275x210 , Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif )
I don't usually discuss fandom, I'm more a browser of the discussions, preferring to keep to myself on it but I have to say, this has been quite intrestin.
>> No. 12056
I wish people would tell me this stuff straight up more often.
Welp, I'm gonna go delete all my old work from deviantart for fear of embarrassment.
>> No. 12057
File 133564560345.png - (254.13KB , 421x337 , 6640712969_62b75258ff_o.png )

Let's just all agree to disagree. Everyone has their own opinions. At least no one here is claiming that they are right and everyone else is stupid and wrong.
>> No. 12058
>Welp, I'm gonna go delete all my old work from deviantart for fear of embarrassment.

Or you could just admit that you like the same stupid shit as everyone else, and start enjoying yourself again. Whatever's good.
>> No. 12059
I wasn't going to say anything. In fact, I'll probably come to regret trying to participate in what's supposed to be a discussion at all. But I have to say it.

I think it's really sad that, as a relative newcomer to the fandom, I've already had to buckle down and convince myself that I'm not writing or drawing to please anyone else. With so many stories yet to share, I'm having to write them off as simple self-indulgences, when really, I'd rather be doing just that - sharing. With people that give a shit. And I know that's not really going to happen now, because it's impossible to please anyone who's been around longer than me.

Thank you for the reality check.
>> No. 12060
You know what kills me in this fandom? The fact that I know it's the minority that are complete self-righteous assfucks about their opinions as to who's gay, who isn't, what's 'acceptable' fanwork and so forth...and yet, they seem to be the loudest and, for some reason, most loved.

It's a game. A good game, with a fantastic set of characters, but still just a game. Not everyone will like the same pairings. If we're supposed to be adults on this site, how about we start acting like it, eh?

I'm not aiming for anyone, but if you get mad over this, mayhaps you should take a step back and look at yourself.
>> No. 12061
Yang - you are the most forgiving person I've ever met in my life and you are correct.

Everyone, for what it's worth, I'm taking back everything I have said in this thread. I have my opinions, and from now on I'm never going to waste anyone's time throwing an internet bitch fit over anything ever again. I'm going to be turning 30 in June and I suppose it's too late to redeem myself here, but I know its never too late to start acting my age.
>> No. 12062
I'm not sure I'm following your logic on this, so let me just tell you what I experience and observe.

We have several people that write different topics. A lot of the times, it's romance or PWP. Odd, considering the source material, but it happens. We also have action, horror, the occasional science fiction, humor and parodies, and once in a blue moon, a crossover. We've got a good variety here. So, you want to write something? Write something. As long as it's not beating a dead horse or painfully inaccurate and offensive, it can get off the ground.

Now, will everyone read it? Certainly not. Will everyone write a nice reply to it? Even less likely! Hell, I have issues with silence on the Chan a lot. I feel like what I write is written with a base level of competency, but I doubt myself because I don't know what every ding-dang person is thinking. Silence does not mean rejection. Silence is just the absence of speech.

You're going to have to be your own motivator. You can't beg and plead for people to obsess over your every word. So, write what you know--or better yet, write what you like. Whatever you do, don't write because you want someone to say something nice to you. Write because you've got a story to share, first and foremost. As you go along, improve yourself based on the laws of the language and what criticism correctly applies to you work.

Here's the reality of the situation--people won't give a shit until you give a shit. It looks like you care, but you're mortified of rejection. You know what? You can't give a 100% accurate prediction of how people are going to react until you put pen to paper. Now, you can make logical guesses on how some exploitative topics will make others feel based on previous Chan reactions. Of course. If you're not writing pregnant Nazi Medic, you're probably going to be okay.

You're confusing anger with apathy. Anger is a crude, painful form of passion. If we've got anything, it's passion. The least you can do is give us a shot before you dismiss us all as a bunch of inconsiderate, soulless harpies.
>> No. 12063

I save my nasty feelings in this community for the tiny minority who actively hound everyone whose opinions differ from theirs and treat their passive-aggressive griefing like some sort of crusade- in other words, the fandom police. Having hypocritical feelings or behaving childishly on the internet are things that everyone, (myself included) is guilty of, so while I won't go as far as to start proselytizing about how we should all be considering the beams in our own eyes, I will suggest that a little "live and let live" can go a long way in enjoying this fandom, the internet, and life in general. I'd rather save my vitriol for real life criminals and corrupt politicians than become too angry about someone who's being a jerk on the internet or drawing that pairing I can't stand.

KGB, to you, and everyone who feels the same way you do, I'd also suggest worrying less about what other people think of you. This particular thread was created because people like bitching, and you weren't out of line to bitch about what turns you off, hypocritical or no. If you aren't going out of your way to bully people or be a shit in someone else's punchbowl, who should care or feel butthurt about what your personal feelings on X are?

Also, for the sake of staying on-topic, "dewey-eyed uke Scout", (or dewey-eyed uke anyone, really) "Tentaspy" and "nazi Medic" are the three things in fanon that make me cringe. Oh, and the way that most fangirls seem to forget that Demoman exists.
>> No. 12064
Truthfully, main reason I have problems with Nazi Medics because Word Of God has said medic has never been,or ever will be, a nazi or part of them at all.(not in offical texts,but some chan oldfags back in the day took a tour of valve,and asked about it.)
Also, in re:the fandom police, we actually do need that to some extent. keeps whiny DeviantTartlets out and is a nice source of amusement when they get butthurt.
>> No. 12065
Oh gosh. Is it weird I found this genuinely kind of touching? Happy early birthday.
>> No. 12066
File 133566565953.jpg - (145.14KB , 845x771 , 7120255857_8e82144b70_b.jpg )

Indeed, I rarely see any Demo art, which makes me sad. I didn't particularly care for Demoman at first, but he kinda grew on me over time, mostly because I learned how to use him in-game and now he's one of my best classes. It's not entirely clear to me why he's so unpopular. I'd guess it's because he's drunk all the time.
>> No. 12067
Maybe it's because he's so unusual that no one can identify with him. I mean, how many one-eyed black Scottish alcoholics are there in the world?
>> No. 12068
Damn, I wish I was still in school. I took a course on online communities, identity, interactions and fandoms during my last year and this whole discussion thread would have made for an awesome essay. Really interesting stuff, and I mean that non-sarcastically!

I don't really get why people freak out about certain things in fandom. I mean, I accept Tentaspy as Team Fortress 2 lore, but I don't particularly like it. So I just don't read it. It's a pretty simple concept. I would never tell somebody to stop writing Tentaspy just because I don't like it, because that's a part of the fandom that they enjoy, and who am I to tell them to stop doing something they enjoy?

The whole purpose of a fandom isn't simply to worship canonical situations and stories; to be a part of a fandom is to take something that we love and play with it, make new ideas and expand on what we've already been given. People do that in different ways, none of which are inherently wrong. Not everybody is going to like everything that you like, but who cares? That's the same for everything in life.

When I first started writing my TF2/Hunger Games crossover fic, the initial reaction was quite negative, especially on tumblr. Some sweet people told me to ignore the haters and I said "Don't worry, I am". Because fuck them, I wanted to put our guys in a new situation and see what would happen. I write it because it makes me happy and keeps me creative, not because I'm trying to please anybody or become a well known fan of TF2, because constantly trying to please people will lead straight to misery.

There are some things in the TF2 fandom that irritates me, sure. For example, I dislike a desu kawaii team who have no resemblance to their canonical counterparts. But it's not my place to tell them that they're ruining Team Fortress 2 for me, mostly because they aren't.

The only part of this fandom that I actively dislike and choose not to ignore people who go out of their way to bring other people down or to insult their creations just because they don't agree with them. I see that a lot, especially with some of the more popular people (which confuses me, but I suppose that's bullying 101), and that's truly what pisses me off. I think the chan, and the fandom in general, would be a much better place for everybody if people just showed a little more respect for their fellow fans. It's really not that hard.

Anyway, back to looking at some cock sluts.
>> No. 12069
>>12067 How many Russian manchild bodybuilders, crazy German genius doctors, and obtuse American patriots obsessed with war who keep decapitated heads are there?

I find Demo completely relate-able! I don't drink nor do I lack a part of my body nor am I anything but white, but who hasn't ever been depressed? Who doesn't have a regret that's followed them? Some just embarrass you but some... are just really tough to deal with. His drunken slurs make me laugh but also make me cringe because, wow, he's such a fucking sad guy. He killed his foster parents, lost an eye, was the odd child his whole life because he was a black boy in the middle of a bunch of pale British children with a genetic penchant for making bombs. (And depending on your stance on how the real sixties parallel the TF2 60s, he lives in a turbulent time for black people.) He's an outsider. And then when he finally got a friend, BAM. War! update. If he wasn't a bit depressed after that he'd be a sue.

You know what bothers me? When people say Sniper is the character with "real people" problems. It's totally untrue. Demo for one, and Soldier I can relate to for how he deals with rejection and escapism. (You should hear my silly crack theory on how he's actually the sanest, most normal of them all.) Think of a 13-year-old anime-and-wolf-loving deviant-artist who complains about their parents and threatens to an hero while drawing emo-bang-toting fursonas for themselves and you basically have a really dumb, adolescent version of Soldier.

But... for Demo... I already have my mind set as to why I think he doesn't get as much love. I don't LIKE it, but I'm fairly certain it's because of his skin colour. Bronies are my main source on why. If you've ever seen the comment section on a humanized pony with a skin colour other than white you know what I mean. The demographic for TF2 is similar (pretty obvious, I see bronies/ponies EVERYWHERE in-game and on the forums)-- a huge chunk is a bunch of straight white men throwing around faggot and the N word and being generally obtuse. I know the reason for "accidental racism". I know it's easier for those straight white males (and the white females) to identify with straight white male characters. I'm not terribly bothered by that (until they start ragging on art of PoC human ponies without an ounce of sensitivity)... but that's why Demo isn't popular, IMO. I don't like it, but that's what I think.

On a related side note, it makes me cringe when TF2 guys reject me from their circle based soley on my gender. I know that's not fic or art, but like... example I *LIKE* MLP (that's kind of evident from the fact I look at human ponies... and draw them) but when I try to join in on TF2/MLP activities I am treated so coldly. It doesn't have to be MLP related but that's where it hits worst, because they seem to think the dual-powered shield of MLP *AND* vidyagames, the most manliest activities evur, is some kind of impenetrable barrier from women.

None of this causes any genuine hate from me... it just frustrates me... so it looks like I just had a little vent. I might be a little extra exasperated right now in my attitude towards TF2 guys because I had a particularly bad experience the other day with a guy screaming-- literally screaming-- at me telling me to return to my kitchen for a straight couple minutes and it was wholly unamusing. So yes okay I feel a little slighted by the patriarchy yadda yadda atm.

Anyway, back to looking at cock sluts.
>> No. 12070

And don't forget- his *real* mother is disappointed in him- she's constantly upset that he isn't taking more jobs. No matter how much else is going on with him, being a disappointment to your parents is a real downer, even if you only feel that way on the inside. Having a parent actually sling that at you on a fairly constant basis must be incredibly depressing- not only do you *feel* you are a disappointment, they are actually *telling* you that you are! That must be a thousand times worse.
>> No. 12072
File 133575142072.jpg - (26.34KB , 322x359 , gorilla-closeup.jpg )

Yeah, I didn't want to mention "blackness" as a possibility because I see people as PEOPLE instead of skin colors. I know what you mean with the whole human ponies thing also, and I actually see most of them as non-white because white isn't the fucking "default" race people.

But, back to TF2. What really rustles my jimmies is when people draw or write Scout as a teenager. We have no conformation of how old any of the mercs are yet, but Scout strikes me as a 20-something year old, not a whiney bitchy 17 year old. On that note, it also irritates me when people write him as SUPER ANNOYING to the rest of the Team, like he goes out of his way to piss everyone off for shits and giggles. Scout may be annoying sometimes, but that's just him acting like himself. He probably gets on everyone's nerves, but has no clue that it's because he's a cocky little shit that has a bad attitude and gets in everyone's face in his effort to prove what a tough guy he is. if anyone takes offense to what he does? Their problem, not his.
>> No. 12073

Oh man, these are really great points. I decided to listen to his quotes right now to see if I could get a feel for his character more, and he just sounds angry and sad and I really wanna hug him.

Man we need a demoman headcanon thread. It would be interesting to see how everyone interprets him compared to everyone else.
>> No. 12074
>>12069 I think another reason for Demo to be so unloved is because he is a very difficult character to write! Since he is perpetually drunk, it's hard to "decide" on his "canon" character. Drunk people do lots of strange stuff, so who knows what Demo is really like? On top of that, Demo got a relatively small "meet the" video.

And his character is so... strange. He is a mishmash of all sorts of things, which for me means he is even MORE difficult to pin down. The rest of the TF2 characters are so cliche it's almost funny when you think about it, but Demo doesn't really have that. It makes him probably the most special character in TF2.

What I dislike most about the TF2 fanon is the Pyro interpretations. I doubt even Valve can do it right! Pyro is a thing, person, animal, better left undiscovered, it makes for a more mysterious and strange character overall! I LOVE stories with Pyro's POV without the authors revealing their character's name and gender, it gives this special tang to a story.

And I've seen TOO many big-breasted Pyro cutesy wutesy OC's. Erk, even the ones that try to be non- Mary Sue end up making some weird tomboy! Why not make her a guy if you won't even attempt to make her seem FEMALE? .... Just what I think.
>> No. 12075
This entire post. Again, talking as a black person in the fandom, I don't think that people ignore Demoman because he's black - or at least, not in the "HURR RACISM" sense. As I said in >>11882 , I think part of the reason is that people are SO intimidated trying NOT to do something offensive in their portrayal of him, that they just go, "Fuck it," and don't include him at all. Maybe I'm just way too optimistic in my beliefs about why people exclude Demoman, but it's just hard for my brain to accept that the majority of people are just fucking RACIST.

I also like what you said about Pyro! I totally agree! My Pyro has no "defined" gender, and I try to keep it ambiguous as much as I can. I don't mind others defining Pyro - I just don't think that I ever could, you know?

Also, WOW at that drama. I ALWAYS miss the juicy stuff, urgh.
>> No. 12076
OT, but this MLP/TF2 group has a large number of female regulars, myself included.
>> No. 12077

I don't know. When I try to write him, he's not "The drunk Black guy", he's "The drunk Scottish guy" or the "Mildly lit Scottish guy" (depending on what time of day it is). As they joke, if you are constantly drunk, you don't have to worry about the hangover... But no, we see he's not constantly drunk in the WAR! update comic. I think that if he was sloppy drunk around his mother, she'd beat the beejezus out of him with her cane... She strikes me as someone who wouldn't put up with any crap like that from him.
>> No. 12078
Okay, I know drudging this up again would be in terrible taste and not a good idea, but here goes: I think that while the list of KGB's was a tad harsh and happens to include certain things I have no issue with or even enjoy and saying, I also think that, as it was not addressing anyone personally, it really shouldn't have caused so much of a fuss. That having been said, yeah, they could have worded it more nicely. Also, pic related to my personal reaction to seeing the rage incited from the initial comment

Back on topic, I'll just list some of my peeves that may or may not have been mentioned at some point. First off, I disagree with the general opinion that engineer is a "good guy". Sure, he's polite, but I see that being more due to his southern upbringing than due to his actual nature. He's plenty mean when it comes right down to it.
Secondly, and I admit I'm slightly biased on this point, but I rather dislike how Soldier and Medic so rarely get along in many fan works. Same with Soldier and Heavy. Well, really, Soldier and any foreigner. Again, I'm slightly biased on this point, mostly due to my head-canon of Soldier and Medic being pretty good buddies off the battlefield while Medic and Heavy's perceived amiability with each other simply their recognizing their efficiency together on the battlefield. It's a stretch, I know, but that's just how I see it.
Third, on a broader note, and with stress on the fact that I'm REALLY not trying to hate on these types of stories or the people who write them: I just really don't like romantic fiction (especially cross-faction), the lack of a sort of character development (specifically, the sheer amount of fiction where the teams are already sort of "together" and well acquainted with one another as teammates, if that makes sense?) and lack of combat scenarios overall. Again, I'm not hating on people who write stories such as what I've mentioned; they've been done well. It's just that, well, only so many stories of the same sort can stand out. In any case, I'll also admit that these are complaints that can really be applied to most any other fandom.
In addition to the ones I've already listed, and also a general peeve more than one I can give specific examples for: the idea that technology and social norms of TF2land are parallel to the sixties of our world. Now I'm not saying name-dropping a recent pop single in a fiction wouldn't be odd, and same deal with saying "____ didn't happen", but, obviously, history and technology hasn't evolved quite the same in their world up to that point as it had in our own is what I'm saying. This is part of the reason I so readily accept the fact that Medic wasn't a Nazi or a PoW of any sort, even though both WWII and Nazis are confirmed(?) to exist in TF2land. Don't get me wrong, I have no real issue with people adhering to their own versions of what Tf2sixties is like, but I just get annoyed at the arguing over what, exactly, it SHOULD be like.

On a more relevant topic at-hand, I agree with TwoRefined on Demoman's portrayal or lack thereof within the fandom. I think it's a sort fear of being called racist if one happens to make an error in portraying Demoman that makes them afraid to try at all. I know that's my reason.

As for accents, I really am no linguist nor will I try to be: if a character has an accent, I'm not going to type it out. I think "getting a character down" is a lot in figuring out how they form sentences rather than how they form words in English, if that makes sense? For example, Demoman, Scout and Sniper might form similar sentences in terms of structure, due to the fact that they're all native English speakers who speak informally. Soldier is different from the three in the fact that he rarely, if ever, forms contractions in his sentences. Heavy drops certain articles and I imagine that he, Medic and Spy have certain issues grasping certain English idioms, or may even attempt to translate an idiom from their respective, native languages into English from time to time. So, yeah, getting a feel for how a character actually talks and holds conversation is a lot more important in my mind than trying to capture their accent. The sheer amount of "Hulk heavy" complaints versus "bad accent" complaints sort of convinces me of this, anyway. Though "Bad accent" can just as eaqsily be "illegible" so, yeah, I'd just reccomend not writing out accents unless you're very familiar with the languages or dialects in question. :)

I'm sorry I puked a few paragraphs about nothings.
>> No. 12079
File 133582397324.jpg - (14.53KB , 143x200 , What.jpg )
Image in question. :I
>> No. 12080

I think the reasoning behind the tomboy OC thing is either that the writer is a tomboy themselves, or the reasoning that a stereotypically super-feminine OC wouldn't work, and that she'd have to prefer guns and violence and wearing armor and stuff for it for being a mercenary to even work. I had an OC who was indistinguishable from a man on the battlefield, but was very much a woman with her significant other. I don't think females in general have to be written explicitly feminine for them to work.

I'd love to write Demo, but I never really focus on race at all when I write a character, and I'm worried that that alone would be perceived as racist.
>> No. 12081
File 133583037496.jpg - (61.30KB , 520x600 , TF2__Pyro_Loves_Matches_by_Artemekiia.jpg )

This. When I write lady Pyro, she takes pride in being a pretty lady (who just so happens to have a fixation on fire and burning things). She also doesn't bother hiding her gender, to her there is no secret. The other mercs, however, have no clue Pyro is a lady because they're somehow never at the right place at the right time, which I think makes it more amusing.
>> No. 12082
File 133583200061.png - (46.98KB , 148x200 , KennyMcCormick.png )
Every time I try writing the Pyro, this is what he turns into. More or less, just because no one has called me on it yet.
>> No. 12083
>>12076 Yeah, I'm in that group and I use their servers. It's a mixed bag. Most of the time I chug along fine but I don't usually feel comfortable or welcome in proper conversations, and now and then there's always that one guy.

>>12082 That makes so much sense... Why haven't I made that connection before...?


>>12074 I'd say what Demo is "really like" IS what he is when he's drunk. That cocky, fuck-your-shit thing he has going on isn't just the product of Irish courage. (Do ho ho.) Confidence, snark, and obfuscating Scottishness. I'm not going to say he's easy to write if you don't think he is because that's entirely subjective, but I don't think he's less developed per se... I mean, gosh, Heavy is such a single-minded person I don't know how anyone can write him as doing or thinking about anything but shooting little baby baby men.

I don't think being a difficult character is the reason he's less prevalent. However, obviously others think that IS why and I won't say that's wrong 'cause I don't know any better than anyone else! So, I simply pledge to try and be part of the solution and not the problem. When my summer begins I will dedicate plenty of my time to it, so I promise myself right now.

I think a Demo headcanon thread would be great too, btw.


On the subject of Pyro... I think of Pyro as a child. Children tend less towards female and male traits. And of course, there's the True Meaning comic in which s/he is listening like a kid to Engie.

And, on a "darker" note? The pyromania. I do assume Pyro has Pyromania and doesn't simply "use" a flame-thrower since other classes have kinships with their weapons. (Heavy naming weapons after women, Scout using baseballs and bats for weapons, etc.) The mentality of Pyromaniac characters are varied, but I put Pyro's kind as the childish sort... Not terribly infatuated with fire because of the destruction it causes but because of the life it breathes. You can point a gun and tell a bullet where to go, but fire has a mind of it's own. I think of Pyro as thinking of fire as his or her friend and ally and not just a tool. A mentally undeveloped person with the body of an adult and the brain of a kid, skipping along and playing around trying to pick up kill after kill like they're points and not human lives. For me Pyro doesn't defy a gender, s/he is past having one. If that makes sense. Heck, maybe fire is Pyro's lover and Pyro thinks they ARE fire, too. (Jk? When does MTP come out again?)
>> No. 12087

Same. Pyro's kind of gotten the short end of the stick in my work, but I really can't justify giving him an identity beyond "that cute little fat squishy thing that burns people to death". Going by the game, Pyro seems to be polite and helpful to his teammates, and that's all I'll go by. I don't have some kind of pet theory on who/what Pyro really is, I like him as a mystery.

Unfortunately, that makes him a little harder to write. I'll have to try incorporating him more into another story; I'll admit in my latest one, he hasn't gotten to do much, in part because he doesn't talk much.
>> No. 12100
Wow, I realized I totally missed the point of this thread back there... I could complain about all sorts of crap I think is stupid about fanon, but people have covered most of it already. The one thing I really can't stand is gratuitous, drawn-out sagas of characters getting raped repeatedly by their team, or the enemy team, or an Evil!team mate... I guess I just don't get off on woobification and suffering porn.
>> No. 12102

I heartily agree.
>> No. 12109
Okay - trying to keep on subject here.
I'll admit, I've made some pretty dumb decisions in my life as an artist - the most serious of which involved putting too much of myself in the work. I did eventually learn that if I wanted to make a career out of Illustration/fine art I have to leave my dirty laundry at home, so to speak. That's why I get a bug up my ass when other people don't. IT'S NOT FAIR BAWWW who cares.
YEAH it's fan stuff what don't matter, I know, shut up. But I still get a weird reminder of the ugliness within myself whenever I come across bad fan art/fiction.
This is the art snob in me talking - what exactly is it that makes a bad piece of work? Well, this can be just as touchy as asking what is normal or abnormal.
For me, what makes a bad piece of art is a piece that no one can take anything from aside from the creator themselves. And it makes it all the worse when they take ideas that aren't their own and twist them around to fit into a neurotic fantasy world that they have created for themselves - not everyone wants to watch someone else masturbate, especially when they realize that they have something in common, but to each his own I guess.
In TF2 fandom specifically, we seem to have listed some pretty good examples already in this thread - the annoying OC's and the bizarre childlike behavior, and the 'intolerable' fetishes, and the unexplained need to share all of it are all symptoms of varying personality disorders, and that's why they make me cringe.
I hope that made sense.
>> No. 12115
>... a piece that no one can take anything from aside from the creator themselves
>...when they take ideas that aren't their own and twist them around to fit into a neurotic fantasy world that they have created for themselves

Sounds like Twilight and I totally agree.
>> No. 12116

Twilight hate is so old meme though. And it doesn't fit that first point. Clearly, it does speak to people besides the author, or it wouldn't be so ridiculously popular.

Works that no one gets anything out of besides the author themselves tend to be more along the lines of, say... pregnant trans Nazi Medic fic.

I think there's a lot of fanfiction out there, though, where it seems like nobody but the author could get anything out of it but somehow people do. Kind of like Twilight. For some reason, there's an audience for everyone-rapes-Scout/Medic/Pyro/Fem!OC fic...

Yeah, I dunno either. You don't have to like it, but you can't deny other people do. I don't wanna see it though...
>> No. 12117

People are people, male or female, but at the bottom of the line, men and women think differnetly. Whether that is because of the way society treats them or a wire in the brains, women and men are different.

I have a problem with the Tomboy OC's that just don't seem female to me AT ALL. I'm sure there are people who get it right, but all too soon it becomes an agressive feminist tomboy instead of a woman fighting a war in her own way.

I often write characters from my own point of view. "Would I EVER find this acceptable to do? Would I go into that dark room without a single defense? Would I really dare to go boasting and being all extravagant in a room full of men?"

Most of the female Pyro's just don't have that, they seem to do things like men would do them, or how other women WISH they could do them.

I dislike overly feminine female characters as much as I do non-feminine female characters. To be honest I have almost never encountered a well written female character. As a writer, it's my biggest horde. It just feels impossible to do...
>> No. 12118
You have an awful lot of internalized misogyny here. I find it interesting that you explicitly state that tomboys aren't real women!
>> No. 12119
Please point out to me exactly where he says that, because he didnt.

Im a woman and I find none of that offensive, and agree with it all entirely.
>> No. 12120
I don't know. I've always treated everyone I knew identical regardless of race, gender, what have you, because I saw a lot of things that women did that men also did, and vice versa (like men who are open about their feelings, women who are not, etc.), and I don't know if, despite being a woman, I've ever actually been treated in an explicitly female way by anyone. And I kind of prefer it that way.

I'd like to think, ideally, that the only things women on the team would have to deal with are the same things the guys have to deal with- avoiding rockets and stickies and flames. And they're trained, so there's no big deal.
>> No. 12121

I agree with this sentiment. People are people, it's as simple as that.
>> No. 12122
Parts of fanon that make me cringe: This guy.
>> No. 12123

>> No. 12124
>I have a problem with the Tomboy OC's that just don't seem female to me AT ALL. I'm sure there are people who get it right, but all too soon it becomes an agressive feminist tomboy instead of a woman fighting a war in her own way.

I have a problem with the Tomboy OC's that just don't seem female to me AT ALL. I'm sure there are people who get it right, but all too soon it becomes an agressive feminist tomboy instead of a woman fighting a war in her own way.

Being "an aggressive feminist tomboy" means "not seem[ing] female to [this poster] AT ALL"!
>> No. 12126
And what exactly would her way be? Nevermind that not all are the same, I'm curious what the womanly way of fighting a war would be according to you. Does it involve a lot of hairpulling, perhaps?
>> No. 12127
>>12122 *This woman. I'm female.

>>121220 I like your post. I had a lot of replies typed to all people replying to my post, trying to explain myself, but then I read your post and thought: What am I being stupid about? You're right and I should just keep my opinion to myself.

>>12118 Owl,, that was NOT what I meant to imply, please understand that! I was not referring to tomboys in general, I was talking about the Toboy OC's that are basically men in a woman's body! A tomboy is still female, no matter how masculine she acts, but some of the fanfics about tomboyish females just make me feel like I'm reading about a man living in a womans body! I don't know if I'm misunderstanding the concept of a tomboy, but I always thought there was a difference between a tomboy and a man with a woman's body. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open for discussion.
>> No. 12129
Guys, take the social justics gender studies crap to Tumblr.
>> No. 12130
File 133625270841.png - (103.88KB , 240x240 , Untitled-2.png )
>I have a problem with the Tomboy OC's that just don't seem female to me AT ALL. I'm sure there are people who get it right, but all too soon it becomes an agressive feminist tomboy instead of a woman fighting a war in her own way.
>> No. 12132
I have my opinions on feminism and fem-nazis and so forth, so I'm just going to leave this paragraph here instead.

You guys know why I created Special Ops? It was 10% personal engulgence and 90% out of spite. I looked at other female fan characters and I saw a theme - every one of them was expressing their creator's need to prove that they're just as good as the boys if not better. That gets really old really fast. So I thought I'd just throw all logic out the window and make a female character that has absolutely nothing to prove, and is just as batshit crazy and implausibly violent as every other character in TF2.
>> No. 12134
>just as batshit crazy and implausibly violent as every other character in TF2

This. This a million times. I mean, we're playing with these insane bastards. I don't know if it's Tex Avery level crazy, or Chuck Jones, or whatever equivalent animator you'd like. Some kind of Looney Tunes, Merry Melodies, nutty kookery. To develop a class equivalent that doesn't have that same kind of insane bravado and love for violence/weapons would be...well, I think you're getting my point. Every last one of these characters has their own mental illnesses and delusions, but it's all in the name of fun.

Meanwhile, the cackling Administrator and her assistant look on...

Perhaps that is a problem with developing a female class that would mesh well. Throwing aside breaking game mechanics, you would need something outrageously cartoonish. There may be problems creating such a character, especially when the PC Police could be right around the corner. That may be a good reason for why many female characters in games are often the "straight man" to whacky men. We want to have positive female characters, which often pigeon-holes them in such a way where they cannot be hilarious or crazy without fear of offending someone.

Then again, it could be a male gaze issue, where the normal woman is helping to nurture and keep the crazies from jumping of a bridge. Kind of like being a mom or a wife? Not sure. Or maybe crazy personalities scare away happy feelings. Perhaps seeing women getting fragged on a routine basis might raise a few alarms. There weren't that many women in the 1960s who weren't being actively raised to be housewives, so maybe it was just never considered an option during character development. Or, perhaps, maybe, additional hypothesis...

Hell, what do I know?

When I like a female character, it's usually because they are at least one part batshit insane, two parts stubborn, one and a quarter parts crafty, and at least give one-half of a damn. When they care, it's not just because they're someone's lover or parent. I mean, they can be, but it's more that they have a job to accomplish, and dammit, that means getting everyone through an event. Sometimes they're ditzes, or slobs, or physically weak, or lack esteem, or whatever. The thing is, they at least try and don't get drug down by others. Exactly like what I like in a man.

Having said that, I do believe a female teammate would not be above using the occasional sexy leg or "Hello, boys!" trick. Hell, the Medic's already got a woman's wig. Might as well give him blonde pigtails and have him sing opera. It could work!

...now I just want to go watch cartoons.
>> No. 12135
Hi again! I'd be really interested to know specifically and in detail what character traits, emotional responses, etc a person needs to exhibit in order for you to consider them female!
>> No. 12136
I really don't understand why people are so angry at me for stating my opinion on an opinion board. I'm talking about WRITTEN people, and not real people, nor am I trying to offend them! If I ever made any ill implications towards real-life tomboys, it was completely unintentional! I just wanted to say that I don't like overdone OC tomboys.

>>12135 Owl, I have a reply for you, but it's a private one and I don't want to post it online for just everyone to read. I'll send it to you in an email if that is okay?
>> No. 12137
I'd be up for seeing more mad scientist Fem!Medics myself.

That's one of the reasons I never minded Johnny Test as much as a lot of people- his sisters, Susan and Mary, are essentially female versions of Dexter from Dexter's Lab. One is more straight-laced and slightly mean, while one is more sympathetic, but very much still a mad scientist.
>> No. 12151
The only thing that bothers me in the fandom and ANY fandom is taking it too seriously. Tf2 is entertainment in every sense of the word. As a Game, As an interest and as a subject for creative minds. Not everyone is going to agree with you, or like exactly what you like. Sure there are things I don't particuarly like in this fandom, and any other I'm in, but they don't make me angry. I don't need to look at them and think about them. I'll enjoy parts of the fandom I really like and leave other parts to themselves. they're not intruding on me, let them keep on with it. I'm not going to stop doing things I like to do with this fandom just because someone else might disagree with them, and I would never expect them to stop doing what they enjoy if I don't like it.

I appologize if anyones said this already!
>> No. 12154

Someone might have, but it never hurts to say it again. The only people in this fandom that I truly have no patience for are the self-appointed "fandom police" who devote all their spare time to making shitty comments about others who don't have the exact same 'headcanon' of the team as themselves, or who enjoy a pairing that they can't stand, etc. I find it interesting that these are also the same people who accuse the rest of the fandom of hating them and their preferred pairing/vision/etc, and believe there is a correlation between severe insecurity and projecting yourself onto a character from a popular video game to the point that you take great personal offense at anything you perceive as an insult to that copyrighted character.

Becoming furious over fandom silliness makes you look dreadfully immature, and really; unless you are the man who initially sketched up Spy or Sniper or Heavy or whoever and greenlighted the storyboard for his trailer, you have absolutely no authority in this game's canon. Yelling "NO! BAD!" at everyone whose vision of the Team Fortress 2 universe differs from yours is completely asinine.
>> No. 12155
I think why demoman isn't mentioned is because he lacks of common fanon.
Like week teenaged homophobia girlish uke scout who isn't proper to be in war place.
Bisexual or gay spy who always says oui, not yes and insults and betrays his teammates.
Sniper who loves his own piss and never takes baths, doesn't know how to tidy his room like an uncivilized.
Cuddly teddy bear heavy who speaks like a preschooler and is a terribly idiot that he doesn't seem to be able to work as a professional killer.
And engineer the saint who is so kind, generous and understands every homos and tries to teach and heal them.
But demoman? only his scrumpy.

I wanna ask this.
Then why is there lack of his fanon??
Do fangirls say he's ugly because his skin is dark and he is black and racism shit blah blah blah?? I don't think so. Even most of asian tf2 fangirls admit and agree that he is sexy. But they rarely mention him like american fangirls.
Then has valve abandon him? Never. Why is 'degroot' keep named so?

Then what would be the matter??
>> No. 12156
File 133693088235.png - (98.58KB , 256x256 , demoman.png )
It could be that, compared to the other classes, he has a LOT of story and history behind him and not many fans will make fanon stuff when there's already so much established canon. We know the full story of his family (and his legacy, to an extent), we know how he actually lost his eye, his relations outside of the team (and what happened afterwards)...

For other fans it could very well be racism or genuine disinterest in the Demoman. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

And for me personally... I try to think of a headcanon for Demoman that doesn't involve drinking (though it is a... prominent part of his character)... and nothing comes to mind. I blame myself to a degree for it, but I'm just so satisfied with Demo's canon backstory that there isn't really anything I could personally add to it that I would like.
>> No. 12161
Hmm..Then, I wonder what if scout had the most canon among 9 mercs. He would have the least fanon. Then he would be least popular among fanfirls. Wouldn't...he??

....I think somewhere in my mind is saying no. Though I don't wanna listen it.
>> No. 12163

I dunno. I tend to think the more favorite characters among the TF2 "fangirls" tend to be the less manly among the characters, whether that "manliness" is real and/or only perceived. Scout, Spy and Sniper are kind of slender and arguably thus more "Girlish" (mind you, not *my* feelings on the subject, but how certain fangirls perceive them). Even Medic is the "Healing Class" and thus has a more womanly perception (because the function of girls/women is to take care of men, you know). But if he were an actual woman, they'd totally hate him, because for some reason an actual woman getting in the way of the male/male sexxorings needs to be killed with fire (one of the reasons fangirls totally hate on female OC's, or even Canon Characters is that they get in the way of the male/male sex and have to be turned into hateful harpies, actively evil people or even killed (le gasp!) to remove any possibility that the male characters could end up with them). I don't like it, but it's pretty much endemic in all fandoms among a subsection of fans.

I think, personally, that these fangirls consider male/female relations to be preferred by men, and therefore any possibility that the male characters could be or remain friends with the female canon character or OC means that somehow their gay male/male pairing is "at risk", which I wish I didn't understand, but I can see why certain fans feel that way...

Anyway, back to my main point. Because male/female relationships are preferable (to them) and some people think that even gay couples have to have a "man" and a "woman" in a relationship, the less manly character acts the part of the "woman" and is the stand-in for the writer for whatever other character strikes their fancy. But characters that are too "manly" like, Soldier and Demoman, are simply too masculine and thus, overwhelming for the (possibly teen-age, or simply immature) fangirl. A lot of these writers/artists also seem to be into manga and anime, and as nice as manga and anime are, most of those characters, even the manly ones, aren't as manly as the TF2 characters. They tend to the bishonen/biseinen (beautiful boy/Beautiful man) types. There are exceptions, of course, bit most anime males are slender and don't have really large muscles- the opposite of people like Demoman, Soldier and Heavy. Heavy only gets a pass from these women because he is perceived to be in a relationship with Medic anyhow. Engineer (also manly) has the "Polite Texas boy" thing going for him. But Demoman? He's manly, he's a drunk (perceived), he likes blowing shit up (a very male activity) and he's black, with no apparent redeeming characteristics for a certain type of fangirl, so he gets ignored. And Pyro, well, Pyro could be anything under the hood, so he's the one who gets chickified most often (after Scout and Medic) because the fangirl can more easily believe it could be her under that hood.

Well, that's my thinking as to why Demoman gets so ignored by many/most fans. He's too manly, too black, and has too many male interests and doesn't appeal to the Kawaii desu type of fangirl because he's too other than the typical anime/manga "Manly man" they are used to and enjoy. YMMV and I may not be correct, but this is my reasoning.
>> No. 12164
Out of all the theories regarding the lack of Demo love, I think yours is the truest. I just want to ad that most fangirls who act like this, might not even realize they are have these feelings. I mean, just look at how many "thanks to TF2, I now like manly men!" posts on Tumblr and such are floating around. Growing up (and maturing) is all about broadening your horizons and what you like. So there is hope for every Anime fangirl that wonders into TF2, just give them time.

Also I really need to draw Demoman....
>> No. 12166

Oh yes, it's definitely not overt, but I have seen these types of fangirls feel contempt for, distrust of and even fear of more manly men- or any man with too much/any chest hair- they prefer the hairless Bishonen/Biseinen types- lack of chest hair also makes these types of characters seem younger and girlier (because women don't have the visible kind of hair that men have on their chest. At most, they have what I jokingly call "Soul patch" hair- a small patch around the nips, and that's it (but most male anime characters are hairless pretty much everywhere but their heads and eyebrows). So even the hairlessness works into making the less "manly/masculine" characters safer and less threatening to the writer/reader/artist/viewer.
>> No. 12167
Ah, I totally understand what you mean and I really agree with you.
Certainly, quite many fangirls' favourite characters are likely to be teenagers.
Actually, none of the mercs are womanly, regarding their appearance and personality.
Their womanliness are mostly from compairisons.
If scout was with other adults whose age are similar to him(It doesn't matter whether they are from in tf2 world, or outer from tf2 which means crossover. Why I'm taking example with adults is because scout was in 'adult party' in halloween comic.), he would be totally top!. Think about his violence and threatening weapones like scatter gun.

Well, I think some of them are obsessed at the thought that they must dislike when they like something. I like man/woman OTP(It's RED spy/BLU scout ma/BLU scout, a.k.a adultary and incest, a perfect soap opera.) as gay one, even lesbian one. Why not like them both?
>> No. 12168

I love a good RED Spy/BLU Scout's mom tale myself. And the chest hair thing comes from a discussion I had (In notes) with a fangirl who liked a comment I made on a Sniper picture on DA. I told her my fave Sniper pic was the one that KGBigelow did for me and sent her a link to the pic. Her first (and only) comment was "Ew! He has chest hair!" and I was like, "WTF?! Yeah, men have chest hair." But she never responded to my note asking why having chest hair was a problem for her. I tried noting her again, no response. So I gave up with a frustrated and disbelieving shrug. Who knew chest hair is a... problem?
>> No. 12169
Who knows? If scout also has chest hail like others. How would we react if scout has chest hair officially?
Or all of nine mercs don't have.
>> No. 12170
Fangirls who don't like chesthair would blame valve.
I can't imagine all of them not having chest hail.
>> No. 12171
File 133707438931.jpg - (41.81KB , 900x506 , GMod Sniper pic.jpg )

Most of the shirtless/naked GMod models seem to have chest hair. I can't say all of them, because I haven't actually checked. The one I see of Sniper shows some chest hair, but as I don't fool around with GMod, I can't say how prevalent/true that is of any of the characters.
>> No. 12173

Just checked my fanart folder. Soldier has chest hair in GMod also, as does Heavy, but it's sort of a grayish shading like the five o'clock shadows on their faces. Sniper seems to have *more* chest hair (darker and a definite patch as opposed to a mere shading) than either of them, according to the GMod models, anyway.

Engineer has darker hair striping above his pecs in the one GMod pic I have of him partly shirtless.
>> No. 12176

I thought (well, assumed) all the skins of them without clothes were fan-made... I've never noticed arm hair on the ones with shorter sleeves in-game, which makes me kind of sad. I'm not crazy about bears, but hair = testosterone! Artists neglecting their manliness and five-o'clock shadows makes me sad.
>> No. 12179
I'd like to note that this thread's autosaged.

Also, yeah, pretty sure the nude and even shirtless gmod models are re-skins.
I can see why fans are sort of grossed out by body hair, I'm afraid to admit. Especially the younger ones. Something about not growing up with shirtless men, media in general going for a smoother look in both men and women, and so on. Not that the sight of body hair on a man should necessarily cause instant revulsion, either.
>> No. 12180

If you go to the beach around here, even today, you see guys with chest hair. And not just a little- some guys have a LOT. I was unaware that you could grow up today and not see anyone with some fur on their bodies (so to speak). Wow, living in NJ, I must be out of the loop! And Italian men, like those in my family, tend to be "shave yourself so you look human" types. My Dad has not only chest hair, but back hair, too.
>> No. 12182
Haha, I'd like to note that I'm not speaking for myself when I say that! However, where I live, beaches aren't nearby and I actually have a few friends who (probably in part due to their religious backgrounds?) don't really see shirtless guys--even in their own home. Two of whom are freaked at the sight of a lot of chest hair. I dunno, maybe I'm using a minority as an example for how the majority acts, idk.
Also, greetings from GA!
>> No. 12183

I lived in Florida for a time (near Tampa- Palm Harbor, actually, which is sort of halfway between Tampa and St. Petersberg), and even there I saw chest hair. But then again, I grew up in New York State- the 'burbs, not the city (we were gone from there by the time I was 5- before that, we lived in the Bronx), and my uncle Pasquale (aka Pat) was even hairier than my Dad is... Dad has a bathmat, Uncle Pat had a full-on wall to wall carpet as far as chest hair goes. And Hi back!

As for me, I actually think complete lack of chest hair is/can be a turn-off. To me, it looks strange and almost unnatural- but it also depends on the guy. Just as, to me, some of the 'roided-up weightlifter guys look strange and unnatural and almost inhuman. It's not natural to have arm or leg muscles larger than your own head! And I guess that carries over into lack of chest hair for me. When I think of guys lacking chest hair, I get one of two reactions, "Too young for me." or "Ew, not human/too shaved/any sweat or oil and his chest will turn into a slip and slide."
>> No. 12185

I agree that guys without chest hair look strange (not that I'm particularly turned on by either), and that, yeah, big, buff bodybuilder types are sort of creepy.
Honestly, the only time I see shirtless dudes is at home because our AC breaks down all the time. I don't know, it just seems sort of iffy to walk around shirtless where we live for whatever reason; people here are so high class. However, there's more than a few dudes here do have enough chest hair to start peeking out of their polo shirts, so I guess that counts for something?
Backing up a bit, it just occurred to me that girls who like the smooth, younger-looking guys tend to do so because of perceived femininity: the guys appear more thoughtful and sensitive than someone with any real definition or body hair, I guess?

i have been carrying a conversation about body hair for two days whaaaat.

On a different note, based on certain events: people writing fanfiction where the characters are the characters in name only. I'm not trying to be a fandom policeman or anything, but I just feel that you'd be better off writing an original story than a fanfiction. especially since the fanfiction in question didn't even bother describing much in the way of the characters' appearances There is plenty of very consistent canon to go by and it doesn't take a lot of effort to flip through the relevant "Meet the Team"s, comics and quotes. I don't think it's too much to ask to put forth that effort if you're going to publish a supposedly TF2 story on a site pretty much dedicated to Team Fortress 2
>> No. 12187

Asking people to write them like they're supposed to be isn't being the fandom police. It honestly galls me to hear people defend themselves by saying "oh, there's not much canon, you can't expect me to make them recognizable." There's loads of canon about the character's behaviour under tense circumstances, the way they address their friends and co-workers over the course of a day in the field, and so on, and so on. Like you said- it doesn't take years to pore over their emotes and responses from the game, and watch the videos about them. We don't know much about many of the characters' home lives or childhoods, but that doesn't mean they're mysterious figures with no defined personality.
>> No. 12192
I suddenly got urge to read some tf2 fanfics related to magic, demon and etc. Since ghosts and magic are canon.
When it comes to tentaspy, too many writters don't think that they can use magic and curse that nine out of ten tentaspies became as they are because of medic.
Magic spell or curse surely can make a tentaspy or someone so turned on and cause the faggotory easily when it comes to porn.
Why not use the official magic??
>> No. 12204
I'm derailing the fascinating chest hair conversation here, but where the hell did Tentaspies even come from? That's always confused me. Spycrabs make sense, but Tentaspies? What.

And I also want to do my own little rant on femclasses. I've only ever seen one good story with a fem!pryo (which may or may not be cannon). All other femclasses exist for sex, which wouldn't bother me so much if she didn't get raped or almost raped (and holy shit saved by a white knight class which later on she magically falls in love with goddamn) every time. But she does. Frankly, it bugs me. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, or that it isn't a good plot-forwarding device, but jeez, every time? You know what I would kill to see? A class that is actually good at her job. You know, one that doesn't suddenly lose her fighting abilities when it's time for the plot to happen.

(You know who drew some great femclasses/OCs? DelenaHupp.)
>> No. 12205

I see this being less of a problem because the female character would take her revenge on a teammate who did that to her... slowly, painfully, and make every other male on the team cross their legs whenever she passed by just in case she thought they were looking at her funny...

And geez, given that the announcer is herself a woman, you don't think she'd have a problem with a team of rapists (like in one fic I read) or even a male team member who raped another member of the same team? Not because she's female necessarily, but because of the damage it would do to team cohesion?

I mean, I see her trying to keep the teams fairly equal in terms of their expertise and stuff, because if one team keeps winning all the time, that's bad for one of her two employers, and she might be out of a job. What happens if Redmond or Blutarch actually wins the war because one team loses cohesion when one of them is raped or turn on each other in rapey rapey times? I don't see her wanting to give up such a lucrative position- she may not LIKE what she does, but she seems invested in keeping the teams fighting each other, and is probably being paid by both sides.

And if someone is being raped, even once off the field or all the time, why would they want to defend the people abusing them? Seeing them get killed over and over by the other team has got to be emotionally satisfying, if nothing else. And that would weaken the team as a whole, and I think professional mercenaries would know that would be tantamount to suicide. You help your team, they help you, and everyone sticks together, because otherwise you lose- and so does the team, and maybe you get fired or killed permanently dead for it. (Given how ruthless you think the Administrator would be in that situation. We already know she had the Director killed, and I doubt she holds the lives of our favorite mercenaries in any higher esteem than she held him.)
>> No. 12206

Well... I think the Administrator values the mercenaries insofar as they're related to her job, but I'm pretty sure she considers them expendable.
>> No. 12215

Oh, definitely. Given the statements she's made about them, she pretty actively has contempt for them. She's only cautious around them insofar as they are good at killing people. One of her comments in the comics was along the lines of "Something doesn't need to be smart/intelligent to kill you."
>> No. 12238

>Having said that, I do believe a female teammate would not be above using the occasional sexy leg or "Hello, boys!" trick. Hell, the Medic's already got a woman's wig. Might as well give him blonde pigtails and have him sing opera. It could work!

I have only this for you...
>> No. 12244
"Plutonium isn't smart, Ms. Pauling. That doesn't mean it won't kill you if you don't keep tabs on it."
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