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12247 No. 12247
So... since the other thread has saged, I shall continue here. So, I was on DA today, and a new group for TF2 popped up that I hadn't seen before, called TF2 necrophilia. I figured, okay, let's see what kind of artists and art are there. I wasn't all that disappointed that it's really mostly drawn in the necrophilia style- that's about what I expected, and not really my thing for TF2. But there's a list of pictures by character. And of course, Demoman doesn't have one (yet). Pyro has one, but it's empty (what a surprise). First three characters represented in folders? The usual suspects: Scout, Spy, Sniper. Now, not all the art was necrophilia-ified, and there actually was a picture of Demo with Heavy (I think). And Engie, Heavy and Medic (with Solly) were the next three folders. But... No Demoman? No Pyro? I was faintly horrified, but it holds true to my "Demoman is too many, too drunk and too black for most necrophilia fangirls" idea. Sad to see it confirmed, though.
Expand all images
>> No. 12248
>>12247 I'd forgotten about the word filter for a moment, and was amused. Then I remembered, and I was no longer amused.

Today while I was sitting around thinking about how badly I'd like to cradle Demoman's face in my hands, I came up with the theory that one of many reasons Demoman isn't as popular in fanart and fanfiction is simply that he's too real for most people's escapist fantasies. Fangirls can't fap to fancies of him sweeping their self-insert character off their feet and solving all their problems because, gasp, he already has problems of his own. And not all of them are sexy problems like, I dunno, being a controlling manipulative bitch, or whatever teenyboppers think is "deep" these days.
I'm pretty sure this theory or something very close to it has already been presented in the previous thread, but shit I thought I was being original at the time.

On the subject of something other than Demoman, not that I ever get tired of him--I am growing weary of all this fascination about what Pyro looks like, and what he has between his legs, and little to no dialogue about aspects of Pyro that are actually relevant to his character. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to "develop" Pyro simply by giving him a face, without actually have to explore his personhood, what makes him tick, how he fits in with the rest of the team and the world at large. Just slap a few physical traits on that empty slate you call a character, and you'll have people lining up around the corner to tell you how much they love your interpretation. I'd say that on a list of things about Pyro that are absolutely fascinating, and worth exploring through stories, art, and discussion, his mysterious appearance is maybe twenty-ninth. The poor dear.

Captcha says "Confines Foressac," and for some reason I think it's talking about Soldier's junk.
>> No. 12249

And yet it also appears to turn off the ones who want to cradle his face and help him with his problems, by which I figure it's implied his problems are the unsexy ones. He's not evil, misunderstood (or evil because he's misunderstood- I never understand how that one works...) or you know, conventionally HAWT so that he could be dragged into one of the above categories, but sheesh! He's a sexy MAN. That's what I like about the TF2 guys. They aren't boys (with the exception of Scout, and even he's on the cusp), they are MEN. Not angsty 'roided up posterchildren for manchildren who want to feel manly- MEN. And while I can understand the appeal of hot bishonen sometimes, I need a dose of MEN like some people need their daily iron.

And, just to make your day a little brighter, check this out, a parody of those " 'Roided Out Manly Men" stereotypes: http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/71
>> No. 12253
Orrr you could embrace the fact that you like him and others don't.

...I can't really follow why this is bad, you were on DA, what else did you expect?
>> No. 12257
Shit, help him with his problems? That's a waste of a good alcoholic. I just want to cradle his face because it's a damned sexy face. Wipe some tentacle slime all over it.
Anyway, in regards to explaining the demoman shortage, I sincerely doubt that a lack of appreciation for manliness is really the problem here. If it was, then where do all these Helmet Parties come from? I think within the fandom itself--I mean, not including the necrophiles--it has more to do with the fact that he's a challenging character, and intimidating to writers. I don't know what the artists' excuse is, though; he's easy to draw.

It’s cool if people prefer the perfect pretty-boys, or whatever. They can watch their Oiran High School and listen to their Jonas Brothers, and not love poor Demoman, if they want. It’s okay.
It’s not okay when they put our dear manly boys through the pinkwash and turn them into some simpering pansies that glitter in the sunlight and claim they can never live without you, for their personal fapping purposes. Like what you like, if you like, but while you’re at it, respect my drunk, bald, barrel-chested mercenaries, and allow them to be what they are. I’ll do the same for your skinny effeminate bishounen. That’s how diversity works.
I'm aware that you've said nothing to the contrary. This is my idea of a contribution.
>> No. 12258
>I was faintly horrified, but it holds true to my "Demoman is too many, too drunk and too black for most necrophilia fangirls" idea. Sad to see it confirmed, though.
I don't get what's so tragic about there being close to no cliched spaghetti legs kawaii uguu fanart of my favorite class. Sure, it's sad that the fandom barely remembers that he exists, but unless a talented artist/writer portrays him in a way that can gather a fan following (like popular characterization and pairings have been in the past), it's going to be that way forever.
>> No. 12259

Not everyone on DA is bad in that respect. I guess I should have suspected it from the name of the group.


I agree. That's a damn sexy face. Of course, all women are there to make damaged men whole again. Why else do we have the magic healing hoo-ha if not for that? (tongue so firmly in cheek there...)


There is, just not on that board- yet. And another thing that's currently annoying me? TF2 Pokemon teams. I mean, I don't really care, but honestly, how many pictures in this vein do you expect anyone to look at. I saw one thread with 80+ pictures of this character and his Gengar and that character and his Embreon. If I wanted to look at Pokemon, I could watch it- please don't mix it into my TF2, thanks. Especially don't spam an image board with 80+ Gary's Mod pictures crossing TF2 and Pokemon. I really don't care to mix the two. One or two pictures is fine, I can delete them with no problems. But 80-something? Way too much.
>> No. 12262
Maybe Demo's omitted because they worry they'd be interpreted as racist if they drew a dead black guy?

I can deal with a little Pokemon crossover, if only because there's so many 'Mons that many characters can have a plausible team based on their personality, looks, etc., but I do agree it gets a little excessive.
>> No. 12272

"Necrophilia" is the replacement word the chan uses for Y a o i.

And they were all posted the same night. all 80+ pictures. It was like picspam.
>> No. 12274
When people do write Demoporn, why can't they refer to any portion of his anatomy without throwing in florid colour descriptors as "chocolate," "mocha," "ebony," "toffy?"
If Demoman had a coffee arse, then Demo/Sniper would be canon. But he doesn't. He has a regular old arse, which is presumably constructed out of arse, not coffee or haggis or any other sort of brown-coloured foodstuff. But if it's just an ordinary arse, I say, and not made out of chocolate, then how is it so lovely? Remember young artists, it is the skill of the creator, not the materials he uses, that makes great art great. Don't insult Demo's Mama by assuming she couldn't make her beautiful child using just flesh and blood like the rest of us.

To put it without Soldier Logic:
Your ability to fetishise "exotic" skin tones is not going to earn you admission into the Not Racist Club.
>> No. 12275
On the topic of Demofics, I wrote a 7,000-word Demo/Soldier story for the gift exchange this Christmas and I got exactly zero comments on it. This obviously doesn’t motivate me to write more Demo-centric pieces. If you want more Demo, anons, a little encouragement would go a long way—heck, even telling me my story sucks is better than nothing, if that’s the problem! I want to improve my writing, but more than that, I want to write something that people will actually read.

If you want to take a look and give me some feedback, any kind, on my characterisation of Demo, the story is posted to my tumblr - http://writingcyan.tumblr.com/post/14867117746/night-before-christmas-demo-soldier - and my ask box is open for comments.
>> No. 12277
Ahh, I didn't know that. Disregard my previous comment then.
>> No. 12278

You forgot "Mahogany", "Teak", and "Ebony" But then his ass would turn into splinters every time he got shot, also using Soldier logic. And "Maple Syrup" (for certain low-quality maple syrups, which are lighter in color the higher the grade they are). Yes, I AM the Queen of Useless Information.

But in the main I agree with you. For some people, though, difference is a Kink. Not something they have to have, but something they enjoy once in a while. I am not sure that referring to some sort of consumable thing means they are fetishizing Demoman. Some may just enjoy the color difference, but have a limited vocabulary. Or think the food analogies mean he tastes sweet and rich (Like chocolate) or be wanting to make such a comparison in the story. I know I am being optimistic that some people might think that far ahead, but there you go. Unless the writer/artist is fetishizing some other aspect of him as well, I tend to dismiss the foodstuff skintone stuff.
>> No. 12280
Funny you mention something like that.

Really Demoman is just a bad circle on this site, people keep complaining about the lack of him, and the when someone finally does something with him in it, then people either ignore it or complain about all the things they don't like about it...
>> No. 12282
I am sick and tired of how death is portrayed in most drama-oriented TF2 fanfics.

Point one, why is Respawn so seldom explored? Getting killed just means you (or your identical replacement, if you don't believe Respawn actually resurrects you) come right back, good as new, in a few seconds.

Point two, these are hardened veteran mercenaries. Their ethics, morals and worldviews are not anywhere approaching what we'd consider normal. Even if their best friend in the world died permanently, they aren't going to curl up in a pile of angst and woe.
>> No. 12285
Dear sweet Jesus this gave me the hardest boner. I didn't see this posted here, I apologize.

There will always be parts of fandoms that are 'meh' but for me it's how people react when you like/dislike something they do/don't and they basically call you a bad fan for not liking their 'canon' opinion.
>> No. 12290

This was glorious! It made me hurt and smile in all sorts of ways.
>> No. 12291
I'm sure other fandoms do this too, but it's something I first noticed in TF2:

[Character 1] and [Character 2] are usually paired together. Author/Artist wants to pair [Character 1] and [Character 3] together. So to do that, they either write a scene in which they go out of their way to vilify [Character 2] or that they catch the character they're usually paired with in the act, and then run off and cry or feel miserable.

I don't care who you pair who with, or how much I like/dislike the pairing, that's not cool.
>> No. 12292

Somehow, it's even worse when character 2 is female, and characters 1 and 3 are male. It actually smacks of some really bad misogyny. Y'know, "How dare vaginas get in the way of my slash!"
>> No. 12293
I can understand when people just aren't turned on by homosexual pairings, or can't see a certain character as gay, but someone who constantly goes out of their way to do this really does worry me.
>> No. 12294

Oh my god i remember this fic! I freaking loved this fic.Drunk-make-up-angsty-sex-times = lovely.

On another note, something that REALLY bothers me in tf2 fics isn't so much the drama, but the lack of comedy. Look, these guys are stupid. TF2 is stupid. Mannco is stupid. Saxton motherfucking Hale is stupid. THE RED AND BLUE CONFLICT WAS FOUNDED ON BEING STUPID.

Also- I noticed a lot of people are like "oh well we cant have the gays without angst i mean its 1968 blah blah blah BLAH" I dunno, I feel like the tf2 universe has more leeway. I mean, for all you know Hitler was a floating brain in a jar. With a mustache. and a cat.

So I guess what I'm saying is, dramatic fics aren't bad, but i feel like were all forgetting that this is a game where you smack people with fish and throw pee at them. Also the next update might have robots. Robots!

I want silly dumb funny fanfiction with some shipping on the side please.
>> No. 12299

For what it's worth, I try to include humour in my writing, even in stuff where the situation isn't high-flying slapstick comedy... It's easier in art. Most of what I drew was weird faces and visual gags.

I'll definitely agree that when people take TF2, the fandom, or their favourite characters so fucking seriously, it loses its charm. You've got to be able to take things lightheartedly and laugh at yourself sometimes.

...truths, Captcha? Well, I guess it has the same opinion as me, anyhow...
>> No. 12303
>I mean, for all you know Hitler was a floating brain in a jar. With a mustache. and a cat.

This needs to exist hard. Bonus points if it goes into Bionic Commando territory.
>> No. 12319

In the next tf2 update, Hitler's cat - who is also a vampire - exacts revenge on the GLORIOUS U-S- OF- A and it's up to a man named JANE FUCKING DOE and his rag tag team of underdogs with EVERYTHING TO PROVE to save the day! 'MERICA!

Also, the underdogs are actual dogs. Except for the one that's a snake. No one likes him.


I feel like with dramatic fiction, there needs to be that ability to convince your audience. Cat Bountry does it very well actually. I actually like dramatical lurve fests quite a bit, I just wish there was as many crack/joke/funny/stupid fanfics as there are dramatic ones.

Also, more head canons:

Soldier doesn't understand a lot of basic math. It's why he has such a crappy apartment with such a crappy roommate. He has no idea how to manage his money. It is also because he's completely nuts, but the money thing does have something to do with it.

On that note, when he was growing up, soldiers parents realized something was wrong with him, but chose to just ignore it, so it got really bad, and it's part of why he's so crazy.

Pyro is a fabulous dancer.

Engineer may be parental towards his teammates, but he's a lot less innocent at sexytime. He's actually a total player.

SPY is the monogamous one. He's completely devoted to scoots ma. He has all these fancy proposal plans.

Heavy and Medic are deeply in love and they're totally gonna move to Russia one of these days.

Heavy's mama is this EXTREMELY tiny woman, whose really embarrassing and shows medic (and every girlfriend/boyfreind heavy has ever had) his baby pictures.

Heavy weapons guy was born premature. He was once tiniest baby of them all.
>> No. 12320

Augh I'm so stupid. I got mixed up and put my head canons in this thread. Sorry.
>> No. 12495
This isn't "bad fanon stuff" perse, or exclusive to TF2, but I don't understand hatesex. I don't generally want to have sex with someone if they're a total asshole to me or threatening to kill me.
>> No. 12496

I think it comes out of "Hate is the other side of love", in that it's a passionate emotion, and therefore is easy(?) to transmute into another kind of passion. But I agree with you. If someone is being a butthat to me, I don't want to screw their brains out.
>> No. 12497
Why is angst the default theme in fanfiction? I have to take an antidepressant after I read half the stories on this site. It's especially perplexing since Tf2 is a very lighthearted game and it doesn't take itself seriously at all. I understand that people are channeling their own feelings and experiences into these stories, but a bit of comedy relief is not going to ruin it.

Does anyone have some funny stories they could recommend? It's all I really want.
>> No. 12498
Well I seemed to have reiterated what you said. Sorry about that.
>> No. 12499
Does anyone have some funny stories they could recommend? It's all I really want.

Here are a couple of silly, funny ones.



I'm not linking to the funny ones in the Chan because I assume you already know them.
>> No. 12500
This is one that always gets my goat, too. Not to say that there can't be some soul-crushing moments with TF2 if you do a little too much fridge thinking, but for a cartoony game, it does get a bit ridiculous.

Personally, I think tragedies, for the average person, are easier to write and relate to. I knew people that would purposefully kill their characters at the end of every story simply because they didn't know what to do with them otherwise. We all love a woobie, don't we? Plus, we're fighting against some popular belief that all stories end happily, so by making it a tragedy, we're being edgy and unique. This rarely pans out as it makes the main characters look like waifish asses who never learn anything. Hey, some people are thick as bricks, but that doesn't mean I have to like them or side with them because bad shit happened to them.

The only tragedy I've constantly enjoyed was Othello. That was because the main character acknowledged that he made a mistake and was flawed. Then suicide. (Sure, why not, Shakespeare?) At least he knew when he was in the wrong and was able to grow from it just a touch, even if he was just going to off himself in the next five minutes.

Coming up with a happy ending that people like? That takes work, creativity, and effort. It's just easier to fall to the sorcerer than it is to fight him.

Crap. I'm off topic. Let me swing it back on with this interpretation, then. Do you know why I like writing about these men? It's not because they're glass cannons that crumple every time someone pokes them in the back. It's because they are a bunch of crazy-ass bastards that try to survive and win, no matter what depravity they have to sink to. That insane ingenuity and fire is admirable, and I like to see it applied and rewarded.
>> No. 12505
I love the second one, it's one of my favorites. Especially this line:
"He came three times," his mother said. The Scout banged his head against the table. "To the house," she added impatiently.
>> No. 12511
I think part of it is that people like to see a different side to things in fanfic. After all, you do have fix fic and fluff for tragic stories, just like you have depressing fic for silly stories.
>> No. 12512
I've been finding lately, through reading fanfictions for other fandoms (Avengers, etc.), that angst and drama are the mainstay. And, like TF2, there is much comedy to be had for these other fandoms. I have to wonder if the writers' own perception of things ties in. Certainly, making Cap' America a lovestruck, on-the-verge-of-tears, basically-a-teenage-girl is so OOC it's not funny and I've read many a TF2 fic (usually Scout-centric) that worked the same way. I just don't understand.
>> No. 12514
My theory is simply that angst and tragedy are much easier to write than comedy. Comedy is hard.

While virtually everybody can agree that the abuse and death of a woobie is sad, different people tend to have a completely different sense of humor: what's hilarious to one person is idiotic or offensive to another person. Writing a humor story that most people find funny takes *a lot* of work and skill.

That's not to say that well-written tragedy doesn't take a lot of work and skill. But, in general, it's *much* easier to hurt a character than to make a good joke.
>> No. 12515
Maybe, but I doubt it's the only reason people write it. If someone really wants to write comedy, they'll write it even if they aren't the funniest person in the world.

Some people just gets off on the character's tears (even if crying is terribly OOC for the character).
>> No. 12595
Some people just enjoy writing angst. I like to keep my stories lighter and softer when I do write TF2 fanfic, but when I write angst it's delicious. Not because I'm pouring a whole bunch of inner strife into this character and making him my avatar, but because I like to see these normally somewhat lighthearted characters get completely fucking wrecked.

Comedy is tough, but sometimes tragedy is just more satisfying.
>> No. 12598
I don't think difficulty has much to do with it, because I don't think that there is much of a difference in difficulty between the two genres. Sure, some authors will be better at one than the other, and some readers will be more easily pleased by one than the other. But overall, comedy and tragedy are very comparable in terms of the skill necessary to pull off appropriately. Both can become annoying or hurtful if the author goes too far, and both can go flat if the author doesn't go far enough. Not everybody has the same sense of humour, or the same emotional responses to tragedies. Short story shorter; trying to illicit an emotional response in a reader is hard no matter what the emotion is.
Unless you're trying to annoy the reader. That's pretty easy.

I think it's just the fact that literature in general is an overwhelmingly "serious" medium, as compared to say, video games or comics or low-budget animation. Obviously, funny literature exists, but most of what is read and written is ranges between "sensibly lighthearted" and "bloody grim." Why? I'd assume that it's because books are very private by nature, and reading is a quiet, solitary, gentle endeavour. It's "alone time." People as a general rule prefer to laugh with their friends in a pub, and cry alone over a copy of The Death of Ivan Ilyich. Most writers, meanwhile, aren't feeling their silliest when they're sitting alone staring at their word processor, thoroughly contemplating every word and idea that comes to mind.

TF2 fiction just follows the same patterns as most fiction.
>> No. 12600

Thank you for that.


Your theory is wrong because I have read so many shitty tragic fics in my time you would not even believe how many people fall flat on their face with it.

I could hold up dozens of shitty tragic fics and be like, "explain this, if tragedy is so easy to write. OH WAIT YOU CAN'T."
>> No. 12602
As much as I would like more silly fics, I don't think comedy and tragedy angst are easier or harder than one another. They're equals to each other.

I mean, while I would like more silly funny fanfics, I don't think darker drama fics are bad or easier to write, But having more variation would be nice. Me thinks we should all have are hand at writing our dream fic, or at least outlining and discussing it, so as to inspire more of the same ya know?

Everythings great in its own way I guess.
>> No. 12603
If we take the equation comedy = tragedy + time, comedy and tragedy are only equal to each other at the exact moment of the action being studied. Otherwise, any offset tragedy has on the scenario is eventually negated by the progression of time. Then again, this equation does not come with appropriate units, so I can't say as to what we're measuring here. It could just be -feels + seconds.

Wait. That's it. Feels = -feels + seconds.

My original opinion on this subject is that tragedy is often used as a creative cop-out, and that writing a successful optimistic ending is harder because of the scrutiny it receives. I stick by that. There are a lot of universal human tragedies that we can associate with--loss of life, possessions, finishing last, not finishing at all. Comedy tends to be populated with regional flavors, particularly if wordplay or puns are involved. If a work doesn't transmit to a wide audience, it will go unnoticed. Using simpler and more universal themes are a sure-fire way to get attention, so tragedy typically packs more bang for its buck, as far as efforts in getting readers go.

There's a three step set of actions to comedy and tragedy. One: an event happens. Two: the character did not anticipate this action. Three: the character reacts to this event. Confusion and anger to an unexpected event is...well, expected. Laughter and acceptance is less likely to occur. Finding humor in a bad situation is a bit unusual.

At any rate, relying on what we think to be solid facts, but in reality are actually poor tropes, is a terrible habit.

On that note--I loathe stories where the respawn system is turned off. It's a lazy cop-out for permadeath drama. Seriously, is nobody keeping data on these assclowns? Not even punchcards? How does your clicky-buzz machine work without being fed solid data on the people it's supposed to be reviving? Does everything just live in memory? That sounds like a terrible design.
>> No. 12604
>On that note--I loathe stories where the respawn system is turned off. It's a lazy cop-out for permadeath drama. Seriously, is nobody keeping data on these assclowns? Not even punchcards? How does your clicky-buzz machine work without being fed solid data on the people it's supposed to be reviving? Does everything just live in memory? That sounds like a terrible design.

Wow I am so guilty of this, it's frightening, weh.

Anyways, back in my day, I used to do a whole bunch of comedy fics (for a different series), but it's hard feeling as proud of those - at least it was for me. They would be my most favorited works on DeviantfArt, while my more serious ones hardly received a glance. I didn't like that.

I think I still have a funny bone in me somewhere - I've done at least one humorous PG fic, and another funny PWP fic (that I went anon for), but for me, doing tragic fics is about wanting to take MYSELF more seriously. I do it for a sense of fulfillment.

but srsly tho, DF, like, is it ever acceptable, like, at all, augh I'm wounded i srsly am 4rlz
>> No. 12605

That's a very good post. I'm not sure I agree with you, but it's definitely food for thought.


I never said tragedy is easy to write. I said that (in general) tragedy is easier to write than comedy. Doing thing X can be much easier than doing thing Y, but that doesn't mean that doing thing X is not hard.

Since writing tragedy is hard, I don't doubt that a large percentage of tragic fics are shitty. But a large percentage of comedy fics are shitty too.

I also said "my theory." I don't pretend that my personal opinions are in any way universal objective truth. It's entirely possible that I'm really wrong.


On that note--I loathe stories where the respawn system is turned off. It's a lazy cop-out for permadeath drama. Seriously, is nobody keeping data on these assclowns? Not even punchcards? How does your clicky-buzz machine work without being fed solid data on the people it's supposed to be reviving? Does everything just live in memory? That sounds like a terrible design.

Well... My theory is that Respawn doesn't clone the guys to bring them back to life, but actually brings them back to life.

A clone is not the same person as the original any more than an identical twin is the same person as the sibling. Even if the memories of the original are implanted in the clone, I imagine there would always be physical and behavioural differences.

And the TF2 Universe has machines that teleport matter, machines that can completely rebuild organs and bones and even teeth, and machines that can bring recently-deceased people back to life (the ones the Mann brothers use).

So, I think when a mercenary die, Respawn works by teleporting his remains back to base, rebuilding the body, and reviving it.

(If you believe that souls exist, you can assume that Respawn reviving the original body so quickly prevents the soul from leaving the body, which would explain why Blutarch Mann couldn't see anything)

Assuming that's really how it works, then it would be easy to justify stories with perma-death. The part of Respawn that revives the newly-rebuilt body only works on the recently-deceased.

At least, that's my headcanon ^^
>> No. 12609

If I came off as rude, I'm sorry. I just think that writing to get an emotional reaction out of an audience is challenging, period. Having written both comedic and tragic work in my lifetime (though around these parts I'm probably more known for my serious stories), I can say that I find them both around the same in terms of difficulty to write. Actually I could say that comedy probably comes more naturally to me, if you'd believe that. But I enjoy doing a more serious take on these characters so much so I keep doing that. If I were in a fandom with more serious source material, I'd probably be writing sillier fiction.

I think the reason that more people might write serious fic is not because it's easier to write, but because serious fic begets serious fic. If that's the kind of stuff a lot of people are reading, then there's probably going to be more people posting it.

My solution would be that if there's not enough comedy fic out there, try and write some because I really can't think of any other solution that doesn't involve complaining that people aren't writing what you want them to write. If you write a funny fic, more people may be inclined to take your lead and try it. It's pretty much the nature of the fandom beast. It might not always catch on but at least you can say you gave it a shot.

Least that's how I see it.
>> No. 12610
Sorry. I shouldn't have been so vehement last night with my words.

A lot of how I imagine the respawn system to work relates to my personal job--managing servers and websites. With these items, you always have back-up locations, development environments, and scheduled back-ups for any databases related to those environments. Since I'm in an environment that focuses so much on preventing total collapse, it's frustrating to me to see people writing about environments where negligence causes a catastrophe.

I do share some similar headcanons with >>12605. I do believe that if such a machine existed, it would have to be able to recycle parts from a deceased individual. I also think that there would have to be a database to store missing gaps and parts that are destroyed beyond repair (i.e. gibbing, missing atoms.) If you had this data system, you'd also want to update it with new statistics and changes in body structure from day to day to allow people to become stronger and fight better. (Of course, accidents happen--look at the Sniper's scar.)

There may be up several respawn machines operating at any given time. Both Mann brothers have one a piece just to themselves. BLU and RED each have one. The Administrator and her staff may have one in case of mutiny (and hey, it might happen.) There would most likely be a dev environment to experiment with various genetic codes and structures as well. This environment is probably what could create class derivatives (genetic mixes, splices, vivisection, etc). There many be other devices to which data is stored; most like some kind of glorified floppy disk, in this case. It's the 1960s in a screwy dimension. Who knows?

I'm not sure how mental transference or soul catching or what have you would work, however. I can't pseudo-science my way into understanding that, outside of traits and experiences being stored in some fashion. Even a huge genetic structure would be easier to store than that.

It's possible to still wipe all of that out, given a large enough EMP that could go through several states. It's just very unlikely. I just have difficulties believing someone would flip a switch, turn respawn off, and then whoops! Permadead teammate. If that were the case, they probably would have killed each other permanently the first night they went to sleep.

Of course, knowing how screwy the TF2 world is, the respawn machine could be something as simple as stapling a Ouija board to a Turing machine. What the hell. Who knows?

So, to summarize my rambling--I have difficulties with "respawn is down" stories because I'm paid to prevent that from happening in real life. Well, not so much respawn machines, but you get my drift. It's the same reason I loathe so many movies about computer hackers and viruses gone horribly wrong. I just can't stand it when someone designs a system without a sufficient level of complexity or security.

But, hey. People can still feel horribly bad about a death, even if the deceased comes back to life. That is a legitimate and human emotion to have.
>> No. 12611
You didn't come across as rude, but I really appreciate the fact that you cared enough to apologize over possible misunderstandings. That was cool of you.

I completely agree with your solution. I've been trying to write a TF2 fanficion for months (a comedic, kinky and entirely consensual Engineer/Spy story that subverts rape tropes), and so far I've managed to write 3000 words. Sadly, writer's block has struck, but I'm trying my best to overcome it.

But... assuming I can finish it (kind of a big assumption), this will be my very first TF2 story, as well as my very first porn fic (all my other stories in other fandoms never went past kissing). So, a rookie's first experiment in a new direction. In other words, it might crash and burn. Just a fair warning.

At the very least, in my story the "Respawn is turned off at night" clichè is a pretty mayor plot point (albeit just used as motivation, nobody actually dies). D.F. 38's criticism is very fair and sensible, but personally I'm very fond of the ridiculous idea of RED and BLU using crappy equipment (after all, they buy their stuff from Saxton Hale, the guy who objected to Apple products because "it's not on fire! how do you even know it's on?")
>> No. 12612
Well, that was a lot of brackets. I shouldn't type when I'm sleepy.
>> No. 12613
Ah, well that explains a lot. The way I think of respawn working is that you have to get... like... Scanned every day before battle, and then it'll bring you back like you were that morning by recycling body parts and clothing, even getting "raw material" from local livestock. I figure that, if you're far enough from the respawn system, it won't bring you back (aka, out of bounds in the maps). That's to keep there from being multiple respawns of a person at every base they'v already been in, resulting in a lot of confused clones.

okay, so I made most of that shit up right here and now. Thing is, I don't think much about respawn. I just tend to think of it as a "go off base, and respawn won't bring you back". I don't know why, but it's always been a theme in my mind. I just can't see something complex enough to be able to bring humans back to life as being as able to back up as data. Just feels... wrong to me. Like it cheapens it.

Moral values aside, I guess that's not a bad way of looking at it.
>> No. 12620
My personal fanon, that I've used in one RP, surrounding respawn is that it scans your brain, genetic code, etc. and makes a brand new you every time you respawn.
I think I just like this theory, simply because it means dozens of corpses lying out on the battlefield that someone has to get rid of, and for whatever reason, I find that hilarious.
Just some guys in little matching hazmat-esque suits, dragging a Heavy's corpse into a giant shredder or something to be disposed of.
>> No. 12623
I've been trying to read up on quantum mechanics a bit for my story as at least a partial explanation for how Respawn works. Not just genetic material gets respawned, there are also outfits, weapons, and ammo. Something is going on in order for a person's mind to seamlessly transfer from one body to another. Considering the game keeps tallies of who kills who, as well as cameras watching the battlefields, Respawn seems to be a widespread network of an area. Everyone is being constantly scanned, which is why Respawn is able to instantly detect a death and activate the algorithm to transfer the mind into a "new" body.
>> No. 12624
I dunno. I always just thought of respawn in the game world as how it actually is in the game. Your character dies, you are sent into a sort of waiting room while the game reorganizes your code and shit, (I know nothing about computers I am so sorry to anyone that does) and then you come back to fight again.

In my mind, the only way that the men in TF2 could really die is if their punch card/data file/DNA code or whatever you like was destroyed and/or removed from the computer's memory. (Or, I suppose, if the computer itself was completely destroyed.) Respawn can also be turned off, and if someone is killed while it's off, they just have to wait until it's back on again. I would also think that someone could change their spot to respawn. Say you die in gravelpit--you could reprogram the computer to recreate you up in Coldfront or something.

(shit this thread is degenerating into a headcannon for respawn and I'm not helping sorry.)
>> No. 12630
I thought that respawn would have to be mostly memory to function. At least in regards to their brains. Perhaps the body could be stored long-term, but all the information in the brain would have to be updated constantly, or else they’d unlearn things when they died, and Spy would forever backstab next to sentries.
There might be information backed up somewhere, but since it’s a back-up file, it’ll inevitably be two years out of date and probably corrupted. Best-case scenario is you’d manage to restore somebody but they’ll be a noob again, and have forgotten all those magical moments under the moonlight with Heavy, who will crawl into a hole and cry for the love that has been undone. Worst-case scenario is you get a puddle of organic matter with a hat.

(I’m not helping either, oh well.)
>> No. 12641
I always figured once the guys got too old to fight, or they were replaced by different mercenaries, then they'd no longer be immortal.
>> No. 12648
I find it annoying when people have Heavy speak Russian and write it out in the Cryllic alphabet. To boot, they hardly ever leave a footnote translating what he said, so I have no idea what Heavy said OR how to pronounce it.

I don't know how legit this complaint is, maybe it's just me, but I'd like to know what other people think.
>> No. 12650
Bugs me too. Russian's a ridiculously annoying language to try to pronounce.
"What do you mean 'B' is a V? That's just silly! What's next, 'H' is N? What?! But that's crazy? What's an 'N', then?....X?! WHAAAAAT?"

It's a crazy language. Roman alpahabets I can do, but when you have like, half of the roman alphabet in there, and then throw in a bunch of 3's and upside-down M's, it just gets to be a headache.

Beautiful sounding language, but damn, it's a bitch to try to read sometimes.
>> No. 12651
This is something that irks me. I find that there's an overuse of unnecessary character descriptors. For example; 'the bushman', 'the Russian', 'the brunette' etc. Honestly, the name of the character suffices. You don't need a thousand synonyms to describe you character, and when you start saying weird things like 'the Bostonian' your story just become ridiculous.

It appears more often in novice writers, probably because they've read it so often in most of the fanfiction out there. But it's a trend has to stop.
>> No. 12652
I personally think it's worse, when you're writing, to have 'Sniper did this, then Sniper did that, then Sniper looked at Sniper and sniped, and then Sniper said Snipery things'.
Honestly, I call Spy 'The Frenchman' more than I call him anything else.
>> No. 12653
I totally agree with this.

The thing is, when you're using character names while WRITING, it sounds extremely repetitive, however the READER just buzzes over character names the same way they buzz over the word "said". The same way it's distracting when you use many different words for "said", it's also distracting when you use a plethora of words like "the bushman" or "the bostonian" instead of character names.
>> No. 12654
See, I'm the opposite. When I read, I do pay attention to the fact that people have used the word 'said' in the same sentence twice. I'm weird like that.
>> No. 12655

Ditto, it bugs the hell out of me when I see the same word used more than once every couple of sentences. Whether it's "spy" or "said" or "ran" or "dick", Words like "Bostonian" bug the hell out of me too, but I'd rather see characters described in a simple recognizable manner now and then, than see:

"Heavy hugged Medic, then Medic said "Oh Heavy I am so excited" then Heavy said "Oh Medic I love you" and then Heavy and Medic ran off to do heavy and medical things.

I think for me, the problem is that all of their "names" are technically not names at all, but adjectives- descriptions of an attribute of each character (that being his occupation). We know a few of the characters' names, but not all of them, not enough to write a story where their occupations are referred to when it's relevant, and not every single time the character appears. If I could call them Tom, Dick, Harry, Larry, Barry, George, Joe, Beagle and Jim, I wouldn't have to resort to calling them by other adjectives than their adjective/"name".

Bringing this back to the topic of the thread, I can't stand it when people call the characters "my babies" and act like they're the ones who created them, to the point of telling other people that their way is the only "right" way to draw and appreciate the characters.
>> No. 12656
Sentence like that just need to be rephrased. I think it's a bit lazy using a weird synonym to add some variety to to your paragraph. You need to maintain a balance of dialogue and description. Often you don't even need to say "he said" because it's implicit. A good writer is economic with their words.
>> No. 12662
I think some of these bad fanfic problems are just general inexperienced writer things, not just in TF2 or even in fanfic, but the good thing about this is that people who practice generally get better.

I found a few tips on writing from friends who have written fics before:

* Never call a foreign character "[insert food here]-colored" or "exotic", it's in bad taste.
* Keep in mind the feel of the character- a realistic character generally wouldn't do an evil laugh, but a cartoony villain would.
* You can use "he hissed" or "he snarled" instead of repeated "he said"s, but don't overuse it. Use synonyms a lot.
* Good description is always key.
* Using phoenetic accents is great, but don't make it unreadable.
>> No. 12663
"foreign" doesn't mean "non-white" wow. not all americans/brits/whatever you're using as your baseline are white people wow and not all foreigners are non-white
phonetic accents are really fucking hard to do correctly which is why it is so rare for professional authors to use them in actual literature
there have been studies proving that you should pretty much just say "said" 90% of the time because the reader will just gloss over it, accepting it less as a word than as a placeholder which means "this is dialogue." only deviate from "said" if the new verb is chosen on purpose to be striking and express information about how the line was delivered (if the person literally whispered, or shouted, or something), NOT just because you think you were saying "said" too much.
>> No. 12664
That isn't what I meant in regards to foreigners, but I apologize if that's how it came out. But that's true, you shouldn't say someone hissed, snarled, etc. if they said something normally.
>> No. 12665
>If Demoman had a coffee arse, then Demo/Sniper would be canon.

I about choked right there. Thanks for the laugh.
>> No. 12666
Hmmm.... things that are fucking annoying in fandom...
Welll I don't know if this is still the case but there used to be a habit amongst writers of calling cigarettes "cancer sticks". Its like, Okay, we get it, cigarettes are bad for you. But you can just call it a cigarette its O.k. I promise.
>> No. 12668
Every time a new Meet the Team video comes out, there arises this small but obnoxiously vocal minority of critics throwing fits at fan creators because their portrayals of the class in question isn't exactly like the video in every way. Forget the game itself. Forget the comics. Forget the uncharted times between canon appearances. Apparently a few minutes of that character's life, as portrayed through the lens of the canonically-biased Director speaks for the character's entire personality, all the time, in every situation.
If you're not going to calm down and accept that the Meet the Team videos aren't the end-all be-all of class characterisation, then you could at least be equitably ridiculous. Don't just pick on the class that just had an update. Go antagonise some fanartists for drawing Soldier doing anything other than lecturing severed heads. They need a good laugh.

Also, there is at least one person in this fandom who continues to complain about the fact that other people overrespond to Meet the Team updates, even though all such updates have been made and it's no longer a problem. What an old curmudgeon.
>> No. 12669
thank you for explaining that wordfilter, as I was otherwise alarmed and horrified at the OP.
>> No. 12671
This has been kind of bugging me lately

Why do we abuse scout so much?

I'm always finding fanfics, fanart, ask blogs and even gmod pictures dedicated to raping/mutilating/humiliating/beating up scout.

I know this is fandom and it pretty much happens toe very chracter, but it seems to happen to scout a lot. Its not that its a big deal to me (I've already seen all the terrors there can possibly be in fandom) but I don't get it- why scout? What, do we just not like him or something? Do we feel like he deserves it?

Also, I've been finding quite a few fics with spy fucking scouts mom, then turning around and fucking Scout. If I was scout mom I would beat the shit out of spy for that. And not just for cheating on me, but for having sex with my son!

Then there are fics where spy is Scouts dad, but he's still a douche to scout, and that seems really sad to me. Also, in those fics, why isn't scouts mom raving mad? And why isn't that ever talked about, you'd think she'd have all sorts of problems with someone hurting her kid. Why isn't she ever written as caring about her kid?

So yeah, why doesn't scouts mom ever care, why is spy always written to be an asshole with no consequences, and why is scout our punching bag?
>> No. 12672
The only reasons I can think of are these:

1. Really, really good enemy Scouts are annoying. As are really, really newbish Scouts. But can't you say that about really good (or really awful) people of any class on any team?
2. At least one fic writer admitted she just hates him because he reminds her of people that bothered her when she was younger. Which is understandable, but Scout is not that same guy (same for people who hate Soldier because he makes them think of a gun-crazy Redneck neighbor).

I think there is a lot of good about Scout. He isn't a baby, and I don't think anyone could get away with attempting to sexually abuse him without being beaten to death. Although I'm not sure if everyone who draws that subject matter plays the game per se or if they only enjoy drawing the characters.
>> No. 12673
I think it's either because he's the smallest of the group, and therefore super uke kawaii desu, or because he's such a little shit that the only way to write him without making him a little shit is to break him and make him super uke kawaii desu.
>> No. 12674

Errrrgh that makes sense.


Yeah that sounds right.

I guess I really do know why. I just wish people didn't go that route, cause its so lazy to me. Scout can be more than hyperactive little shit.

Actually, as long as were on this, solly and scout sure do say faggot a lot in fanfiction. I kind of get solly, but scout? That doesn't make any sense. Scout doesn't make prejudice jokes in his taunts, they're more like "ha ha fatty!" I don't get why they have to be homophobic.

As I've said before, I can kind of get solly, but scout feels like a stretch to me. I think it goes back to the idea that scout reminds people of someone who hurt them, and adding that because the person was a homophobe, or using it to further demonize them.
>> No. 12675
I think it falls back to his attitude and possible upbringing. Tough neighbourhood in Boston in the 50's/60's? Pretty sure people weren't exactly rolling out the welcome mat for gay people. So it stands to reason that Scout wouldn't be exactly accepting of it. And because he can be an obnoxious, name-calling little butthead, people will throw in the word faggot.

And, of course, there's nothing the gay porn world love more than a homophobe who ends up loving to take it up the ass.

You know what I'm actually surprised at, though? That very few people have actually thrown any sort of racism into their stories. I mean, Demo's black, it's the 60's, and most of these guys are probably in their late 30's or older. Some of them likely grew up in environments were people of colour weren't treated quite equal to them, and might therefore have attitudes reflecting that.

I think that one boils down to writers feeling 'Oh, if I have a racist person in my story that's not a worthless sack of shit, then people will think I'M racist'. And they're probably right to feel that, given how defensive some people here can be in regards to issues like that (not saying they shouldn't be defensive. I'm just saying.).
>> No. 12676

I always thought it was really weird that people interpret the tf2 universe like ours, and give it the same social standards and prejudices. Then again thats probably my preference for silly rolling in again.
>> No. 12678
Have you noticed Scout's attitude yet? He's not exactly soft-spoken and neighbourly. I'm not saying he's a horrible evil person, but he does seem like the kind of the person who would end up saying horrible things for less than horrible reasons--because he's a boob and he doesn't think about the shit that comes out of his mouth, or because he's a boob and doesn't know how to interact with people in a positive way. I can easily see him pestering the newly-outed gay teammate[s] just because it's as close as he can get talking to somebody about something that matters.
That sort of characterisation constitutes most of the Scout saying homophobic things that I've seen.

I won't deny that there are plenty of authors who bastardize Scout into a caricature of homophobic evil, but there are just as many authors who do the same to Soldier or Spy or Medic [or Professor Snape or Doctor McCoy or anybody you like,] usually simultaneously transforming the protagonist into a perfect woobiemuffin, because heaven forbid the reader sympathise with the wrong character. That's just general bad writing, rather than a fandom-specific problem.
>> No. 12679
I too have heard of people hating Scout because he reminds them of bullies. Not just one fanfiction writer either, but at least three different people.

To be honest, that baffles me.

I mean, really, let's look at what Scout actually does. In one comic, he is kind and friendly to a child (a child that's wearing a France costume, at that, something you'd expect a stereotypical "American with an attitude" to have a problem with), and in another comic he seems fairly comfortable working a job, Santa's helper, that requires A LOT of patience with kids. But in his Meet The video Scout gleefully picks a fight with the enemy Heavy, and again in the Smissmass comic he immediately challenges Old Nick. With friggin' wrapping paper.

In other words, he is nice with those who are smaller and weaker than him, but eagerly seeks out fights with those who are much bigger and much stronger than him. That's the very opposite of a bully!

Scout is indeed a little shit (but I love him anyway, because he is a funny little shit). He is (hilariously) obnoxious and he has an ego the size of a small planet, and he is constantly hitting on women.

But I honestly can't see him as a bully. I just can't see a guy who goes all "here kid, let me give you a cool present" and then turns around and goes all "holy crap, is that a scary giant with a huge gun? LET ME AT HIM!" as somebody who'd ever pick on weaker people.
>> No. 12683
Scouts hardly my favorite character, but, yeah, he's not a bully. A two-bit thug, maybe, as well as a boorish boob, but, yeah, he's pretty kind when it matters. Call it ego, but he strikes me as the kind of guy who LOVES it when odds seem stacked against him (until he gets seriously hurt, like, say, if his leg bone was taken from him mid-fight). That, and I don't think Scout actually has the capacity to be venomous or spiteful if something (Medic and Heavy being gay or whatever) doesn't concern him directly.

I wish I had more to contribute to this thread, but, honestly, there's no real issues I have with writing/characterization/art in this fandom that isn't strictly "bad writing cliches".
>> No. 12686
How, exactly, does the fact that Scout's nice to tiny little kids prove that he isn't a bullying type? What do to young children have to do with a twenty-something-year-old mercenary's social hierarchy?
And how the does taking a bat to poor Heavy, who at the time was just sitting there trying to enjoy a sanvich, make him not a bully?
How does picking fights with people who are physically bigger and stronger than him make him not a bully, when Scout obviously sees himself as being a better fighter?
>> No. 12687
Well, it's not hard proof or anything. I just find it extremely unlikely that a guy who is always shown as kind and friendly to people who are smaller and weaker than him (yes, I know we have only seen that twice in canon, but TF2 has so little canon that we have to extrapolate from what little we do see) would pick on people who are smaller and weaker than him, which is typical bully behaviour. Believe me, bullies don't care about age, 20-year-old bullies are total assholes to small children and to the elderly.

The poor Heavy in question was the BLU Heavy. The enemy Heavy. The guy whom RED Scout is expressly paid to fight. Also the guy who is paid to fight Scout. And they were in the middle of a battlefield.

I don't consider a mercenary attacking an enemy combatant on the battlefield to be bullying. No, not even if the enemy combatant was enjoying a meal.

Whether he sees himself as the better fighter or not, the fact stays that he is only ever shown attacking strong people who can and will fight back. If it were simply a matter of him considering himself the strongest of all, then the strength of his adversaries would make no difference to him, and he would attack both strong people and weak people.

Again, none of that is hard proof. But personally I don't buy the portrayal of Scout as a bully, it makes no sense to me.
>> No. 12688

Thats EXACTLY how I feel.

If scouts meet the team video was bullying, then by that logic, EVERY meet the team video was bullying. (well, maybe not pyro's. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing) besides, what about the sandvich vid? If we we're judging it like that, doesn't that mean Heavy's a bully too? He just runs into a kitchen and brutally murders two people trying to reason with him. Sniper? He throws piss at people. HUGE jerk. And engineer, look at him, sitting there enjoying a beer over a sniper corpse fire. AND HE HAS THE GULL TO CELEBRATE WITH MUSIC.

C'mon guys, c'mon.
>> No. 12691
talking about bullies in a game about mercenaries

you guys
they kill people for a living.

>> No. 12692
Oh, there you go, talking sense and putting things in perspective like that!

Spoilsport :P
>> No. 12694
Oh come on guys.
Except pyro, those eight(including scout) are aggressive fighters who can bully and troll whom they hate enough when they want.
Neither all of them always nor never bully.
They have killed messangers who don't seem that guilty while they weren't quite hostile to civilians.
I think they bully if they want and don't if not.
>> No. 12699
Yeah, for people who are supposedly murderers, they surprisingly have protected/not killed more people than they've actually killed. Maybe you have to be a threat, a mark, or a really massive asshole for the TF2 guys to kill you.
>> No. 12705
To be fair, while the specific messanger they murdered might have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time, they had just received threats to their families, private lives, and treasured possessions. The picures sent a very clear "your loved ones are at my mercy/I can destroy everything you hold dear" message.

And, as it turned out, the messanger really did work for the blackmailer. And judging from her threat to have Soldier immediately shot in the WAR comic, her messangers carry out assassination jobs too.
>> No. 12743
Dang it people! It says BAD stuff, all this serious talk is actually quite good and intriguing.

As for the bully idea, I don't think so. Many project a hard, rough and tumble exterior because that's how you have to look in that sort of line of work, and with the abnormalities of the job (Respawn, colourful characters, mercenary work) it probably helps to ease the tension with some banter.
>> No. 12817
The amount of fat-bashing that goes on involving Heavy, or this implication that he's borderline mentally disabled/incredibly clumsy because fat people can't be intelligent. This is literally the only complaint I've seen against his character.

Also, when Soldiers want me to exclusively pocket them when they've gotten angry at Medics exclusively pocketing Heavy. Medics should heal everyone and not play favorites. It depends on which Demoman, Soldier, Heavy, etc. knows the most what they're doing on the server or needs me most.
>> No. 12819
Oh man I fucking hate fic where Heavy is written like some kind of idiot child. Now that we've all seen the MvM trailer, can we stop writing fic where he's not just an idiot, everyone also bosses him around all the time? Because what I saw was him figuring out some funny business is afoot before anyone else and taking the lead to go deal with it.

And also considering the description for the Solly poster, where it says Solly devised some bizarre tactics and asked Hoovy about them and got a "yeah, sure, whatever" out of him, it seems like he really is kind of an authority figure. Which would really make sense to me personally because he makes the most sense as having been a career mercenary before being hired by RED/BLU... but that's getting a bit off topic.

Anyway, his official bio basically states he's not dumb and not "your big friend"... has nobody read it, or are some writers just really contrary?
>> No. 12821
I think he has some degree of cuddliness to him. He comforts a child and apologizes for calling him fat, and in Poker Night (which isn't canon, but still in-character, because everything was okay-ed by Valve) he shows a sweet side. He's not a harmless little teddy bear though, either.
>> No. 12824


I mean, sure heavy could be a sweet heart, but he strikes me as someone whose only a sweetheart to select people he likes. Like medic hyuk hyuk hyuk

He's not a teddy bear dumbass peeps he's a badass mofo with a degree in russian literature. You know whats hot as hell? A 50 thousand word dissertation thats hot as hell

Also, really, why so many fat jokes is it really necessary. Heavy's a big guy but he's not morbidly obese. He's got a super strong mans body. Heavy weapons guy could take on saxton hale himself, hell, he could fight bears. He is a bear. Heavy weapons guy is a bear in teh sense that, sure, bears can be cute, but they can also rip your goddamn face off

I'm having so many feelings about heavy right now, can we do something to celebrate everything heavy? When need a national holiday
>> No. 12830

I'm all for it.
>> No. 12840

Incessant fat jokes are canon.

Also, Heavy is fat. He can be fat and in good shape at the same time. Indeed, because he has a vast build with incredibly powerful muscles to maintain, eating a fuckton and being able to store some of it as fat is part of what makes him fit. Embrace the fat, don't deny it.
>> No. 12841
>Incessant fat jokes are canon.

Amen. Ever listen to Spy's voice files? 'What's the matter? Fat got your tongue?' 'You died as you lived, morbidly obese'.
>> No. 12842

Yeeeeeaaaah this is true, I guess I overreacted, sorry.
>> No. 12852
I'm sure this has already been covered but since we're on characterization I really don't like common portrayal of the Medic (in fanfiction especially). I get that it's the author's interpretation of the character yada yada yada, but I tend to see two very common Medic personalities: "team mommy Heavy's bitch ooh let me kiss that better" and "holy fuck I'm not just batshit insane but truly evil and I wanna see everyone's insides on my operating table no matter how much they scream and cry."

(And sometimes the guy will switch between the two extremes in a single story--god forbid a single chapter.)

This probably gets into headcannon territory, but I always imagine the Medic as dude who might cut someone open if he finds that person sleeping outside his lab (because come on, who's gonna let a perfectly good unconscious Demoman go to waste?) but who will also heal his team, because that's his fucking job.
I also imagine him as a pretty crazy badass bloodknight (the bloodknight thing came from hearing his new MvM lines), because how nuts do you have to be to run out onto a battlefield full of well-trained psychopaths mercenaries with incredibly powerful weapons armed with only a homemade needle gun and a bonesaw?
nuttier than a pecan pie that's how nutty someone stop me

So, with that in my head, it always annoys me when I see the two extreme personalities listed above.
>> No. 12853
Also, about Medic, why do people write him as such a cranky guy? Kind of a generic grouchy German type? (Like this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GermanicDepressives ) It doesn't seem at all like him to me. Particularly with the rather chirpy lines they've added for him in MvM ("Ooh! Money!" "I feel like a million Deutschmarks!"), the lines he's had all along where he's making puns about saws and singing "Danke Schoen", and the way he jokes around with Heavy in "Meet the Medic", he seems like much more of a cheerful, fun-loving guy than people tend to portray him.

I definitely got a sense from the van-stealing incident mentioned in the Archimedes description that it was some kind of manifestation of goofy eccentricity. Medic needs wheels? He's taking them. There's salmon, chicken, a cake, and a flock of doves in the back? Ooh! Free doves! You can just imagine him doing 90 mph while trying to reassure the doves that he'd have got his driver's license if that schoolbus hadn't pulled out in front of him, can't you?
>> No. 12855

It might have something to do with how Medics are treated in-game. I mean, the character might be pretty happy (because hey he gets paid a ridiculous amount to cut people open and steal shit), but being a Medic kind of sucks. You get assholes yelling at you for not charging them, charging them too soon, not healing them, dying when they don't protect you, blaming you for their death when they run into a pit of rabid heavy/pyro/level ten sentry hybrids, and for sneezing when they didn't say sneeze. This might translate into the fandom, because a lot of fanfiction writers/fan artists play/like the Medic. That's where the "why do I put up with these idiots" mentality comes from. (lol this makes absolutely zero sense what am I doing)

But for the record, yes. I can see the Medic doing that. And it is glorious.
>> No. 12856
Am I the only one who concerns vavle can patch the balance(like buffing or nurfing unlocks) not based on the actual game but fandom?
For example, if some classes are generally portrayed as very weak and defenseless no matter how they actually sweep and slaughter their enemies in game, the Game makers buff them.
And if some are usually drawn to be more stronger and one-sidedly violate and rape the ukefied classes eventhough they are generally helpless and gets slaughtered easily by those uke in game, they are nerfed to be more vulnerable to those uke.

I hope this is just a thought in my mind that never happened and won't happen.
>> No. 12857
Yeah that's not going to happen. Valve didn't create game balance just to arbitrarily screw it up because of what a minority of the fandom acts like they want.

I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen any game mods that make the Scout into more of a cutesypie twink or something, though...

And I don't know whether I'd think it's cool or weird if people at Valve were reading slashfic at all, though. Although the Gentleman's Ushanka makes me suspect they may have.
>> No. 12858
It won't be that matter if the fandom are reflected in just user created hats and clothes and etc, never influencing the actual game balance.

But, It is fact that Soldier and Scout have received unlocks in almost every update.
>> No. 12859
And who gets portrayed as weak and defenseless in fanfic all the time? That's right, the Scout.

Medic and Spy, for example, tend not to get new items because they're so specialized it's hard to come up with anything new. Like, what's a new medigun going to do? It's still got to heal. (The same applies to Engie, but I'm not sure if you're saying you've seen uke baby coward Engie. That'd sure be something.)

Heavy doesn't get all that many new items, but if you've seen him portrayed as weak and defenseless in fanfic I want you to link me to it because it'd be hilarious. "Uguu, I hope Medic-sempai notices me~"
>> No. 12860
That makes perfect sense. Medic players have to put up with a lot of whining and general assholery, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that ends up influencing the way they write the character and his interactions with his teammates.

It's kind of funny, though. Fangirls who write stories about games they haven't played get a lot of crap for it. But, if your theory is correct, then in the case of Medic-featuring stories an author who doesn't play Medic might actually be more likely to write him IC.

In any case, I think there is at least a second factor at play: Meet The Medic came out five years after the game did.

When TF2 first came out, it had no story and very little characterization. Thus, fans were forced to make up their own. And after five years, it's hard to let go of a characterization that has already been widely agreed on by Fandom even if new canon material contradicts it.

I mean, really, how many authors have changed their characterization of Pyro to reflect Meet The Pyro's reveal that s/he doesn't realize s/he is killing people?
>> No. 12862
Then in opposite, in your opinion, who do you think are usually portrayed as brutal violent rapist abusing weakened ukes(especially scout)?
>> No. 12863
Honestly, I think someone who legitimately believes Valve is fucking up the game balance to reflect what people write in OOC fanfic shouldn't be allowed to think without close supervision.

But to answer your question, for some reason I've seen every class written as a rapist (even Pyro... man that was a weird fic) but Heavy only when he's Medic's poor moronic downtrodden accomplice who regrets it the whole time with every cell in his tiny little brain. I've only seen Rapist!Demo once, though.
>> No. 12866
use your logic

The reason that soldier, scout, demo, etc get a lot of upgrades is because they're the most easily changeable classes in the game. The reason engineer and medic don't see a lot of upgrades is because changing their class drastically will affect the delicate balance of the game.
Valve does not fucking care about OOC fanfiction. I have nothing else to say about this.
>> No. 12867
I think there are different levels of shittiness to human behavior, and just because you hit one doesn't mean you hit all of them.

I think, say, Medic can disagree with the Nazis, disagree with rape, not be racist, and still murder people. Human morality and logic is weird, and you don't have to go the whole nine yards just to be evil.
>> No. 12900

I think I got dumber just by reading this post. Holy shit. Sage for redundance/lack of contribution.
>> No. 12928
I was discussing this with a couple of friends, earlier, and we all mentioned that very rarely do we see Soldier in-character.

Now, Soldier is a confusing guy, and like all of them, Valve have gone back and forth on certain details with him. Originally he could spell "solicitors", now he's barely able to read or spell and makes cigars out of manure, bandages, and taco seasoning. He's been very callous and very...nice in different stories. Back when we first saw his apartment, Marasmus didn't exist and was thus nowhere to be found.

But a lot of the time I see Soldier never yelling, always openly super affectionate, and conventionally attractive in fanworks when he's a bit craggy and old and grumpy in canon (not that that can't be attractive, too). To the point where one of my friends asked "Why do Soldier fans rarely depict him in-character, if they like how he is in canon so much?"
>> No. 12931

I have to agree about the Soldier being written out of character a lot, but I'm afraid I don't agree on the 'never yelling' part. I've seen multiple fics where the Soldier is talking in ALL CAPS EVERY LINE GODDAMN or everything he says ends with an explanation point or 'he yelled/shouted/screamed/etc.'

I'm not sure why the Soldier got stuck with this, but I get very tired of seeing all the antagonistic, homophobic, racist bullshit/conflict in a fanfic pinned on him. Just because the guy is an old, out-of-his-head jerk does not mean that he is a racist homophobe (for god's sake his best friend was a black Scottish cyclops). Soldier (and Scout) are the only people I've ever seen use the word 'faggot' as a slur towards other people in fan work, and it always bugs me, because I think that the Soldier honestly wouldn't have a problem with a homosexual/black/international co-worker unless, of course, it was distracting from the worker's job. (Put that dick down private we've got people to murder!)

But I agree. Soldier is a confusing guy. I love his character, but beyond that surface layer of "I'm a gruff manly man and damn it all I love this country and fighting!" we aren't really able to get inside his head, and we can deduce that he is definitely one of the less lucid members of the team (and that's pretty damn crazy), so we can't be sure how truly crazy or how "normal" (for the TF2 Universe) he is anyway.
>> No. 12932
Fanfic is fine. It's RP where I see the drastically different Soldiers. Most of the time. I've also seen some really good ones, on the other hand.

He doesn't strike me as a racist either. Maybe some animosity towards Heavy and Medic at first, but that's because he grew up in a time when Germans were huge threats, and Russians still were at that point.
>> No. 12933
I agree. Not many people can capture his canon humour. The things Valve makes him say split my sides, but rarely do I see the same kind of dialogue in fanfiction. Are there any authors who have pulled it off? I'd love to read some.
>> No. 12937
What bugs me is that most writers miss a few things about Soldier's insults:

1) They're strictly reserved for the enemy. For example, only the the enemy Spy is a cowardly Frenchman who deserves to be shot even if he surrenders. The worst Solly ever calls his own teammates is "maggots", "numbnuts", and "sweetheart" (if you even consider that insulting).
2) They're based on nationalistic stereotypes, not ethnic or racial ones. And the occasionally misogynistic ones, I suppose, in the form of "You fight like a girl!" and "I will strangle you with your own frilly training bra!"
3) They're clever and funny even in their potential offensiveness. A possible domination insult at the Demoman, for instance: "You just an Englishman in a dress!" This is not just a joke about the kilt, but also a zinger aimed square at Scottish history.

But no, so many writers default to Boring Generic Offensive Caricature Solly. It's disappointing.
>> No. 12949
>>12933 The second story in [url=http://tf2chan.net/afanfic/res/11966.html]this thread[/url] was my best shot at writing something funny involving Soldier, and his unique perception of the world around him.

People writing any of the characters acting wildly out-of-character pisses me off in general, but I definitely see poor Soldier getting some of the worst of it. I've seen people paint him as the homophobic/xenophobic/racist strawman antagonist who terrorizes his whole team... Mind you, the "characters raping/imprisoning/engaging in drawn out emotional torture on their own team-mates" trope is one I just hate in general. Sure, people are gonna write what they want no matter how retarded I think it is, but... eh, this is about ranting.

I also hate "kawaii li'l victim Scout". Jesus Christ, the guy's an obnoxious, self-centered bastard. That's his charm! I'll never understand why some writers/artists turn him into a delicate little flower who forgets how to fight as soon as Spy someone enters the room with a rape kit or an erection. Barf.

I won't claim to be a genius, but I try to keep the characters close to their depiction in the movies, comics, and emotes in-game (aside from the crazy gay sex happening all over the place, that's just shameless filth peddling). I'll openly admit that I'm guilty of letting things get sappy now and then, although none of the canon material shows how the characters react to mental exhaustion or heartbreak. That stuff only happens in fanfic.
>> No. 12950
>I also hate "kawaii li'l victim Scout". Jesus Christ, the guy's an obnoxious, self-centered bastard. That's his charm! I'll never understand why some writers/artists turn him into a delicate little flower who forgets how to fight as soon as Spy someone enters the room with a rape kit or an erection. Barf.

Considering how ironic this is, considering my most popular fic in /afanart/, I'm inclined to agree with this opinion. I love ass-kicking Scout fucking bunches, and I don't understand why there's not more of him.

Well, okay. I DO get it. He's the youngest of the team (possibly - not counting Pyro, who's anyone's guess!), and in a way more innocent despite being a generally annoying douchebag. You get the feeling sometimes that he's acting tougher than he really is because that's what's expected of him. Unless stuff completely goes to hell and he's completely helpless to deal with it ("I regret everything! I regret everything I've ever done!")

But still. That'd be an argument for a solid... hmm... 30% of Scout renditions to be cast as "helpless/scared/confused little tyke that needs grown up supervision, lest the big bad rapist(s) gets him. Instead we have about 75-90% of it. Bleck. Diversity is your friend, peoples.

With that said, you know what would give me THE biggest of writer boners? Helpless Heavy. Being built like a fucking brick shithouse doesn't make you immune to psychological torment. Sides, the sheer amount of BALLS it would take for someone less apt to punching holes into solid metal with BEAR HANDS would be enough to captivate me. I just... yes. Someone do this. I'd do it myself if i weren't stupid and slow at writing 5evr.

Also, sorry for all the terrible typos I'm sure are floating about. I'm sleepy as fuck and also sick so there's that.
>> No. 12951

something that has kind of bugged me about scout rape fics, other than scout not fighting back -

(it's okay if he gets overpowered just keep it within the realm of his abilities. If scout becomes vulnerable make sure it makes sense. And don't do that medic syringe crap everybody does that in every medic fic ever ever till the end of time)

- is how the stories tend to just...kind of end. We don't see the aftermath, or how he dealt with the pain. I mean, you'd think there'd be some sort of emotional pain there. I also see a lot of those stories where scout will start to enjoy it or he'll turn out to be secretly gay or something, so that makes it "okay." Or theres this weird notion that scout being a closeted homosexual that hates gay people is some kind of poetic justice or something. Hating yourself is sad. Being in denial of your own sexuality is sad. Being raped is sad. There shitty things that are brutal to go through and can destroy lives.

Or when he's abused in a nonsexual way, there seems to be this notion that "scout is a brat and we hate him and he deserves it" And then in the end of those fics I get his teammates being annoyed by him sometimes, but they don't seem like they outright despise him.

I don't know, sometimes I wish somebody would pull a catbountry and deconstruct scout abuse. I'm not saying abuse fics should stop. I understand some people write them purely for the porn aspect, and that not everything has to be a well thought out masterpiece. but it would be refreshing for someone to say "hey we may find scout annoying but torturing and raping him is kind of nuts okay" and look at it in a more critical way.

Then I got to thinking that if someone wants to make scout a butt monkey, it's fine if you're going for a sort of dark humor thing. But please, please, know how to write it. Some people do not know how to write cynical humor without making people feel just uncomfy without actually making them laugh. And then it gets really creepy and you start to enter family guy territory and its all really messed up.

Actually, I just wanna see scout portrayed on a deeper level in general. It would be nice to really get to know him ya know? I'd like to know more about his personal insecurities without demonizing him.

ahhhhhh that was long and stupid, I need to go to bed so I can't edit, sorry TF2chan. If I said anything that sounds like I'm undermining abuse, or misunderstanding things or just something kind of shitty in general, I'm sorry. It's 3 in the morning. I'm tired i have class tomorrow. G'night
>> No. 12952
I'm actually working on a Scout/Engie fic in which Scout starts out as a bit shy, but gradually warms up to the team and vise versa. He isn't shy for no reason, or shy simply because he's young. He's more cautious and damaged than shy, really, or at least that's what I'm going for. I will never let him turn into a sniveling uke, though.
>> No. 12953

Haven't you written no less than three versions of the same story about Scout being abducted and then methodically tortured and raped in the most graphic, disgusting fashions possible?
>> No. 12954
You say that like there's a non-disgusting way to be raped.
>> No. 12956
File 134686026157.gif - (418.26KB , 170x96 , l4d2 judging.gif )
Well, yes, only those were reboots because the threads kept hitting their autosage limit, and I've tried to make sure my story is way more than just a typical "Scout Gets Tortured Then Gets Sad" fic. If you want to criticize my story, fine - it's actually on the front page right now, and I'd love to hear from you. But judging by that description you gave, you don't know a lot about it at all.

Also, I didn't know I couldn't write ONE angsty Scout-centric story without being doomed the fate of one million yao*i fangirls. I've written other Scout fics - one in which he's dominant in a very affectionate relationship with Medic. So don't try to lump me into a group with all those "kawaii scoot" fangirls who write him as "rampant homophobe who is secretly gay and, as it turns out, kind of likes it when Spy does bad things to him????" type of character.

>drops mic
>> No. 12957

A valid point. It's arguable that a story involving rape can be well-written and thoughtful, but Tworefined's "Scout is abducted and endlessly raped and tortured" saga is written with such excruciating detail, (i.e. forcing Scout to vomit until his stomach is empty so that Spy can fuck his face and not get puke on his suit, pulling Scout's teeth out, etc.) that the writer's intention seems more like morbid titillation rather than moral outrage.

Oh hey, I'm back on topic with this thread! I really hate eroticized rape fiction, especially when the writer tries to justify the aggressor's actions as the result of love, lust or some other emotional problem.
>> No. 12958
Only I said pretty clearly that the scene wasn't supposed to be sexy and should not be taken as such? Maybe I thought it'd be worse if I tried to glaze over the horrifying details instead of showing rape as the horrid, soul-crushing torment it really is, even with something as seemingly harmless as oral? And the tooth (singular) pulling had very clear purpose in the plot? (And came way before the rape, so...)

I seriously feel like you're judging the story based on what you've heard about it rather than reading it yourself. Once again, if you have a problem, you can take it up with me in /afanfic/. Even if you don't like it, all crit is good crit.
>> No. 12959
>>12958 To be honest, the bits of that story I've read were enough to turn me off from reading the rest. What's the point of subjecting yourself to the task of scrutinizing page upon page of something you hate, then taking the time to critique it? I don't watch chick flicks, I don't play sports video games, and I don't force myself to plough through fanfics I'm not enjoying. Kidnapping/torture/rape scenarios, sobbing trauma victim Scout, pointlessly moustache-twirling rapist Spy, and overemotionally protective teddy-bear Engineer just aren't my thing. They're staples of the fandom that I just happen to dislike. Changing the way a this kind of story is written wouldn't change the fact that it's about shit I don't get off on.

Fans of a story typically turn up to whine "If you don't like it, don't read it!" when someone in /afanfic comes forth with complaints its content (ie. gratuitous melodramatic rape sagas, fetishes they just don't like, out of character fluff, etc.). I think it's pointless to clutter a story thread like that, it's why I'm bitching about it here instead- this thread is all about complaining about things you hate about fanon.
>> No. 12960
Ever consider that maybe there's more to the story than just brutal torture, and that maybe you shouldn't use it as an example when you haven't read the whole thing?
It'd be like me doing a review on a movie after watching only ten minutes of it.
I'm not saying you have to read the story, but don't pass judgement on it in its entirety if you haven't seen it in its entirety.
>> No. 12962
File 134686442417.gif - (959.95KB , 400x222 , nicki.gif )
>Obvious etc.
Oh... Awkward moment when I didn't know you two were the same person.

Anyways, I guess you having your own opinion is fair, but I really didn't appreciate how you made it PERSONAL just now. I even admitted that it was a little hypocritical of me denouncing fics like that (Although I hate it when they're done badly instead of hating all of them). Why you chose to single me out is beyond me, but it was rude, and you're kind of an ass.

Moving on, I kind of miss srs Medic. It's been over a year since Meet The Medic has been out, and it's really changed the face of the fandom. I loved silly Medic when he came out, and still do, but sometimes I yearn for the days when he was portrayed as all cold and removed and stuff. Not really in a sadistic way - more neutral... yanno? Am I making sense? Should I get some sleep?

I should get some sleep.

RPs smut instead
>> No. 12963
>>12962 We're not. Having made the initial post that you responded to, I don't think it's too bizarre that I might have something to say about it.
>> No. 12964
File 13468681014.jpg - (56.23KB , 708x480 , judging x10 combo.jpg )
>> No. 12965

See, I feel the opposite way. I can't get enough goofy unhinged Medic, and sadly still see it way underrepresented in fiction. He's always the straight-laced, cold, distant Medic drowned in paperwork (Unless Heavy is being all snuggly, of course). It's so stereotypically German. I like fun Medic. I enjoy the fact that he stole a catering van. I'd love to see more from That Medic. Plus, anyone who actually knows any Germans know they are awesome at parties.
>> No. 12966
File 134687660646.png - (65.42KB , 211x202 , tumblr_m9u0ztB3Rb1qfgfbdo2_250.png )
I just wanted to talk about scout

then everything got really weird
>> No. 12967
Kind Anon, you have opened my eyes. I guess I saw a lot of goofy Medic because I was looking for a lot of goofy medic (and knew where to find it), but in the world of fiction, at least, goofy medics ARE still shunned from their time in the limelight.

I should rectify this. I can! I will! I SHALL!

>> No. 12968
File 134687690788.jpg - (18.90KB , 400x300 , 105543_v1.jpg )
You can still do it you know you can do whatever you put your heart and soul into

I believe in u

>> No. 12969
>>12964 I know it's hard to believe that more than one person out there might not like your story, but the truth hurts sometimes. God knows, I don't expect everyone out there to like my schmaltzy stories about Sniper having sex with people.

>>12965 This. Someone a while back linked "The Germanic-depressive" from TVtropes, and it's a stereotype I can't stand. I love how Medic makes shit up and does whatever the hell he wants in MTM. I love the crazy shit he says in-game. Yeah, he gets annoyed at his teammates when they lose, but so do all the other characters.
>> No. 12970

Thanks to two refineds epic pick me up speech prettykickinghuh was able to charge up her belief core and lash out her 2020 vision ray at the non believers, thus successfully bringing the topic back to scout stuff! MISSION SUCCESSFUL

So uh...


I noticed scout sucks his thumb when his team loses. I was thinking that could be like a character tick when he's nervous. He does it in meet the pyro briefly, and thumbles around with his hands in the beginning. So it got me to thinking that scout is very physical with his emotions. Maybe he bites his nails, that would be interesting.

I also have this headcanon that scout tends to climb all over soldier or heavy. Like piggy backing and stuff. I just imagine him being very physical. I don't mean that in a wife beater way, but in a "when I'm freaking out I have to suck my thumb and bite my nails and move around a lot." If scout leans on you it means he likes you and considers you a friend. He'll rough around with his team for fun but he wont beat them up even if he's mad at them cause he likes them too much.

I imagine scout has a lot of energy constantly. But it's a very anxious energy. He moves around a lot in his sleep. Very physical very expressive. He's more relaxed at work cause he gets his massive amounts of energy out.

The reason the guard dog isn't in the game is because scout brought him home. Originally Engie found him as a stray and the team thought they'd train him to be an attack dog, but scout bonded with him and was like" NO HE'S NOT GOING IN BATTLE" He threw a big fit and now the dog lives with him in his apartment. For a long time scout didn't know what to call him so he just called DOG. After awhile he named her, peaches. (After he found out it was a girl dog. He couldn't tell at first. )
>> No. 12972
Wrong thread, bro. Headcanon's downward.
>> No. 12973

Errrrg I always do that. Sorry, It sort of turned into headcanons on accident.

I'll put these in the head canon thread then (it's really easy to get into head canons when you're griping about character portrayals.)
>> No. 12975
Here, I'll try to get this thread on the right track again (excuse the double post please)

Since I wanna talk about weird abuse fics because they weird me out and- actually I should clarify.

I don't think abuse rape or whatever the hell kind of fics are completely terrible as long as they admit what they are. If it's a kink fic, thats fine, just be up front about it being a kink fic.

If you're trying to handle rape and abuse as an actual serious issue, PLEASE don't describe it in excruciating detail. I get describing it in detail if it's honestly just porn, but getting all super detailed about the small things when you're trying to portray it seriously is weird. It makes it more of a sexual thing.

I suppose you could have something thats basically porn then go into feelings. I don't know, I would just really like it if a character actually acted like they've been raped. It would be refreshing.

Then again, it's such a touchy subject. I have no idea why someone would want these super ridiculous weirdos we love to go through something as horrible as rape.

I don't know, maybe i'm wrong. Call me out if you feel like it.


This is a fanfic I read that was hilarious and really disturbing and awful and weird and actually kind of awesome cause i couldn't stop laughing at how over the top it was. (Just to warn ya, it's about rape even though we've already been talking about that Do'h)

Put under spoiler for the sake of taste.

It was basically this. Sniper and spy totally hate each other. One day spy finds sniper in his nest thingy, rapes the crap out of him, then leaves. Sniper is scarred and miserable. Heavy finds him and brings him to medic. Medics like "Oh my gosh you were raped! I can tell cause I'm a doctor and stuff."

Sniper wakes up the next morning and throws up. WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN?! Medics tells him throwing up isn't normal and tells him he's pregnant. Nope, it wasn't the flu, or maybe being disgusted because he was raped yesterday, it's cause he's mannpreg now.

Sniper is in denial for 9 whooooole months. He even keeps coming to work anyway with no rhyme or reason why he should be there. and he's like "'I ain't pregnant you guys! NOPE." despite how obvious it is with his preggers belly and all. Then...


Spy shows up and sees sniper is pregnant. He is shocked and feels immediate remorse for his actions. it turns out the reason he raped sniper, was because he was IN LOVE WITH HIM! Dun dun dun!

Suddenly sniper goes into labor and and is screaming that whole "you did this to meeeee" spiel. And he's bleeding out his ass and squeezing the baby out and spy helps him. Sniper doesn't want his help probably because he raped him but he does anyway, because this is the part of the story where spy gets redeemed. Sniper has twins passes out and spy leeeeeeaaaves. Because thats what you do after someone gives birth. You don't get medical help. You get the fuck outta there.

Sniper wakes up later, The babies are fine, He and spy make up and decide to raise there children together. We learn later on they're totally in love and happy with there kids. The end.


This thread gives me feelings. Me thinks I may try my hand at a silly fic when I have some free time, since all my posts here are basically "why isn't anyone funnny whiiine" sorry about that. I really should make some shit I'd like myself.
>> No. 12976
>>12975 Wow, that's even better(?) than this one I read where the bad team kidnaps Sniper so they can rape him whenever they want. I gave up on that one about the time they just started carrying him around, tied up, like a fuckable suitcase or something.

Mpreg is just so far beyond my tastes, I don't think I'll ever grok why the fangirls love it. I go searching for something else to look at when a story steers towards mpreg. Ditto for pictures of it. And lovely family portraits of the happily married mercenary dudes and their beautiful ass-baby.
>> No. 12977
That was the best story.

I understand if an author gets very detailed when describing rape or torture for non-sexual reasons. Rape and torture are lurid experiences which deserve lurid portrayals. That tends to require detail. If it's ugly and painful to read, good. It should be. It seems almost dishonest to gloss over something as traumatically carnal as rape.
What I don't like is when authors claim not to be writing a rape kink whilst describing it in such a way that I can't believe it's not meant to be pornographic. I know there's a degree of interpretation there. Some people can say a lot of things without ever meaning to sound erotic, and some people can see eroticism just about anywhere. But when somebody brings out the phrase "hot velvet pussy" and then tries to tell me it's not porn...
>> No. 12978
D'aww, happy to hear. If you write it, they will come. (If ya know what I mean.)

I don't get to see a lot of goofy Medic. I'm new to the fandom, so I'm not up on all of the internet hidey holes for this fandom yet.

Exactly! Medic bullshitting things and flying by the seat of his pants while somehow still looking like a professional is a magical thing. The trope of the uptight German works best when played for laughs, anyway. Like they're secretly just as retarded as the rest of the cast (my favourite example being Germany from Axis Powers Hetalia).
>> No. 12979

I remember that fic! That story was sad man. I just kept thinking "why is no one coming to save sniper jesus christ." I believe it was the red sniper as the portable sexcase and the blu team as the horrible rapist people. The entire team, minus pyro. All of blu is evil, but pyro. She was supposed to save him but then the fic just stopped updating. I was actually disappointed. I read through the entire thing out of weird fascination and sniper didn't even get to be rescued. It wasn't even horribly written it was just really really sad to me.

I actually would love to read more mpreg because the authors always treat it really seriously and it's friggin' hilarious. Besides, if mannpreg wasn't a thing, we wouldn't have surrogate, the best fanfic forever and ever. (it's my favorite of all cats bounty's fics, because of how disturbing it is. I love deconstructions you have no idea)

Actually it would be cool to read mannpreg where the author treated it like catbountry treated it, or where it's being made fun of. Futurama did it pretty successfully. Also because i love reading the reactions

The way people react to mpreg is the single greatest thing on the internet. It riles people up more than most things in fandom and watching the fight is kind of amazing. So many conflicted emotions. Offense, drama, arousal, disgust, out of character and motherly dudemanbros and that weird fascination with pregnant belly's. I just can't take it seriously, it's great.


That is a very good point mystery internet man.


I kind of want to write an unoffcial sequel to this fic. I really really do.
>> No. 12980
This is getting off topic (in regards to the fact that rape fics and mpreg aren't unique to the TF2 fanon) I guess, but I'll say my piece.

Honestly, I just don't like rape fics in general. Fanfic about a video game just seems like the wrong way to explore the topic in a way that could ever hope to be appropriate. When rape is written in a lurid, unpleasant fashion, it's still titilation. Many people get off on seeing their favorite character suffer, it's just a fact of fandoms. Trying to justify your suffering porn as something meaningful or significant is honestly worse than just saying, "Yeah, I get off on making Medic/Scout/Sniper/Whoever miserable in fiction. That's why I wrote this".

In my own opinion, the most respectful way to portray rape in fiction (unless you're a rape victim seeking catharsis, I can't speak for them) is to do it in as little detail as possible, and in a setting that doesn't involve game/movie/comic/novel characters created by someone else for purposes of entertainment and making a buck. When Cloud Strife/Tony Stark/Dr. Watson/etc. breaks down sobbing, or vomits, or collapses and has to be carried to bed by their knight in shining armour, fangirls' ovaries explode.
>> No. 12981
File 134690300677.gif - (85.08KB , 75x75 , u win.gif )
>the most respectful way to portray rape in fiction (unless you're a rape victim seeking catharsis, I can't speak for them)

Congrats u win teh prize

Damn it. I was really trying hard not to respond to this nonsense again, too. Okay. Bedtime. Hopefully things will be more sane in the morning.

This Anon gets it.
>> No. 12982
Rape (even in fiction, happening to fictional characters) has always made me really uncomfortable, even though I have no personal experience with it.

You walk a fine line with rape, guro, loli/shotacon, fetishes like that, because some people have a very clear indication between fiction and reality, and some clearly don't. I remember one thread on another chan where someone stopped reading anything by a certain hentai author because they wrote a lot of rape doujinshi, and by reading their blog, it became apparent that this is how this person thought normal sex always was. It was really troubling and scary.
>> No. 12983
File 134690948617.png - (296.23KB , 500x353 , tumblr_lx3rl7yZor1r6jyzro3_500.png )

>Trying to justify your suffering porn as something meaningful or significant is honestly worse than just saying, "Yeah, I get off on making Medic/Scout/Sniper/Whoever miserable in fiction. That's why I wrote this".

Shit, they're onto me.
>> No. 12985
Call me a masochist, but I... I want to read this gloriously insane Sniper mpreg story. So I can laugh and laugh. (And hopefully not weep for humanity at the same time.)
>> No. 12987

The things I had to do to get this anon. the things I had to do. (I'm in my schools library for christ's sake and this girl DA gallery is awkward as hell)

Oh and uh, obvious warning: NSFW as hell and basically about rape. Don't read it if that bothers you way to much. Also: Incest. there is brothers kissing brothers incest in thar. This gallery is not something you want to be looking at in public. Unless want people to think you love incest between phineas and ferb. Then it's great.

http://crazedg.d e v i a n t a r t.com/gallery/34701776

take out the spaces. First one is the specific subset of the gallery with the artists tf2 stuff. Theres only 3 pages worth and theres only one tf2 story. Just in case I mess up with the chapters.

annnnnd heres the individual chapters

chapter 1

http://crazedg.d e v i a n t a r t.com/gallery/34701776?offset=48#/d59apj4

chapter 2

http://crazedg.Sparkledog Central.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d59dhy4

chapter 3

http://crazedg.Sparkledog Central.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d59fvr4

chapter 4

http://crazedg.d e v i a n t a r t.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d59gzvn

chapter 5

http://crazedg.Sparkledog Central.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d59qlrs

chapter 6

http://crazedg.Sparkledog Central.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d5awqre


http://crazedg.Sparkledog Central.com/gallery/34701776?offset=0#/d5cx19v

There you go, 7 chapters of badly formatted beauty. I personally think it's right up there with Half life full life consequences, and this isn't even a troll fic. It's great, it's just...great.
>> No. 12988
Goddamn. I must mention that when it comes to badfic, I always thought I had an "iron stomach" for the worst of the worst. But that mpreg fic is, *holy shit*, I took one look at chapter 7 and closed the tab a second later. If it wasn't for your previous comments about it, I'd swear a troll had written it.

This person is the same person who created those mpreg TF2 pics of Sniper and Medic, right?
>> No. 12989

Yups same lady. Pretty great huh
>> No. 12990
File 134696329745.png - (319.70KB , 811x984 , Spoiler Picture.png )
Curious... I'm sure I've seen this picture ( by mpreg sniper girl) before, except it was drawn better...

Did I ever mention that tracing pisses me off? Tracing from Gmod images isn't much better, either, the result always has this weird look to it. Don't mind seeing people referring to Gmod pics, though, when they're not outright tracing them.
>> No. 12991

Jesus Christ I don't know what's worse, the story or the comments on the story.

I'm not really comfortable with rapefics anyway, even if they're well-written, but...holy muffins, that was just too much.

(And really I just stay away from M-Preg because I can't stop laughing thinking about someone trying to push a baby out his ass.)
>> No. 12992
File 134696844066.jpg - (31.12KB , 177x278 , tumblr_lxe2roW9BF1r0yon9.jpg )


>> No. 12993

>It gets better after Act 1!
>> No. 12994


check out this image by the lovely kilojara16.

http://kilojara16.d e v i a n t a r t.com/gallery/35597787#/d4ciqtt

now compare to this image by crazedg

http://crazedg.d e v i a n t a r t.com/gallery/34701776#/d5btbgu

huh, it's almost as though they have the exact same head. WHOOOOAAAA MAKES YOU THINK


I can't remember which one it is, (I think 3) but the one where snipes squeezes his mann babies out is hands down the best chapter.

the greatest tragedy of this fic is: There is not a single "joeys in the pouch" joke. Not. a. single. one. Missed opportunity in it's purest form.

Oh! They also made this recently (just to complete your mannpreg experience:

http://crazedg.d e v i a n t a r t.com/#/d5dxf1u
>> No. 12995
I think we need a relevant history footnotes thread.

Because I am sick of hearing "only Nazis wore gasmasks" and "women did not fight in the '60's, femclasses are unrealistic" and things like that.

I feel guilty because I think I actually followed that mpreg Sniper person on Tumblr at one point, or reblogged things from them, but I never saw their "artwork", only things they'd reblogged from others.
>> No. 12996
Holy hell did I pick a bad time to eat cocoa puffs. :S
It's like everything they do is designed to make me as uncomfortable, dissapointed and downright angry as possible, and I do mean everything.
Their art, writings, subject matter (s), the way everything's presented, the whitenights, the clubs they're moderating, etc.
That all having been said, isn't their some sort of rule that we can't post TF2 art from outside the chan within the chan for the purpose of bashing it? I remember looking through several bad art threads that got locked for such reasons, though I might have misunderstood.
Also, I don't even regret using that smiley.
>> No. 12997
I support this idea if only because I like to study history in a capacity that never seems to help me with anything but knowing bits of trivia.
However,and I'm sure this has been mentioned in some form or fashion on the chan (?), I'm not really sure why the need to even care about real life history or realism so much. I mean, obviously, it depends on the audience reading and how far in whatever direction you go towards,in addition to how you actually write it (suspension of disbeleif and all; can't have an entire story carried by laws of nature made up on the fly).
This has something to do with my hesitance to beleive particularly horrifying events of our history happened in TF2land; it's just that few things are taken seriously in-canon and, insensitive as it may seem, particularly cruel and dark aspects of WWII such as the Holocaust and the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki just seem so out of place. Moreso considering that RED/BLU OWNS the world between the two.
I shouldn't try to write on such matters when I'm not feeling very well.
>> No. 12998
File 134699450840.png - (232.94KB , 500x375 , tumblr_ld2ild9cbU1qezchz.png )

>> No. 12999
I know I'm getting off topic again, but I wish the author had said where exactly he was squeezing those rape babies out from. Was it his butt or his pee-hole? I'm a horrible person. I shouldn't have looked at that, but a dramatic reading was required for my sister.
>> No. 13000
I really am a masochist. Against my utter well-being I steeled myself and went back and read chapter 3. Strangely, it was the atrocious grammar and sentence structure that horrified me more than the ass baby birth itself. Have I already become immune to the story??

Also, from the first comment to said chapter:

>Well, who would be trained in male pregnancy?

Who indeed. *headdesk*
>> No. 13002
So according to the new items, Scout is a pedophile rapist, I guess?

People in this fandom take things too seriously sometimes.
>> No. 13003
>>13002 But the fandom is ALL ABOUT taking things seriously. What will this game do to the impressionable girls who play it? They'll lose their self esteem and think that it's okay for guys in their early 20's to hit on them. Scout has always been depicted as an upstanding, morally just role model for young men everywhere- think of the depravity this will inspire them to commit! It's so inappropriate. I mean, really. Did they even think of how offensive that was? Oh my God. I've never seen something so antisocial in a videogame. I think we should write to the government or have a protest or something.

On a less sarcastic note, I can't stand it when people write or draw Scout as a cute little 16 year old waif. He just doesn't act like a kawaii shota in canon. And he's 23.
>> No. 13004
I don't mind when people write him younger, but yeah, there's a limit. I find it easier to deal with, too, if you're RPing/writing Scouts on both sides. For example, in an RP I'm doing, one of my Scouts is the typical asshole, and he's probably a little older, but the one on the other side of the battlefield is a lot meeker and younger.
>> No. 13005

Yeah thats how I feel. If you want to ignore the idea that he's 23 thats fine, but I wouldn't go younger than 18 or older than 25. Unless its in the future or the past or something. Or like, you have a really good reason for it.


Oh man, if thats true I'm sorry I don't remember that being in the rules. If I broke a rule and the mods wanna punish me I understand. Actually now that I think about it, It was kind of mean of me to bring it up, I wanted to make fun of it with someone but I don't wanna bash someone or encourage bullying on there page. I mean, I've never met this girl so i have no idea who she is as a person and it would be wrong to attack her page. So I apologize for being a major douchenozzle. I honestly just thought it was funny as hell.

I need to stop using the word "like" so much. Thats what I get for typing how I talk.
>> No. 13006
File 134706407179.jpg - (120.99KB , 600x582 , scuttle.jpg )
Wait what? I haven't been following the fandom that closely lately for anything other than porn, so what's this about Scout being a pedo? And where did it say he was 23? Scout's always been my favorite class so seeing him get Ukefied or otherwise turned into a rape and abuse magnet by obnoxious fangirls is an especially bad berserk button for me.
>> No. 13008
>>13006 One of the latest items for him has flavour text about how he was the terror of the track team at highschool, until he was kicked off because they found out he's 23 and not even enrolled at that highschool. He apparantly joined to hit on girls, and some insightful people decided that obviously meant he rapes highschool girls and is a pedophile. I can't make this shit up.
>> No. 13011
It's called the Track TERRORIZER and not all high school girls are of age. I think the anger is valid.

That, and the new Medic item started off as a Holocaust gas chamber joke. Check the original Workshop file. That just goes over the line for me.
>> No. 13012
>>13011 Maybe you ought to start a thread about things that offend you about the game itself. This thread is about things we hate about fanon.
>> No. 13013
Lemme guess, the rage is from Tumblr right? I've seen them flip the shit about how thinking the Pyro is a man or woman or whatever the fuck he/she/it is means you're "cis scum" and reinforcing the patriarchal gender binary.
>> No. 13014
>>13013 Yeah. I'd elaborate, but it's off-topic. Suffice to say, Tumblr.
>> No. 13015
Actually, "track terrorizer" is a runner's term for someone dominating the track lines and is usually aggressively going for gold. So it more means he's terrorizing either the other runners or the track itself, honestly. It also never specifies which girls he's out there to hit on. Sure, it could be students, like the seniors that would be about 17-18 years (which I guess may seem shady to some people, but seems just fine to me). Or, Scout could totally be into MILFs. Or, maybe the coach was a hot chick. Hell, he could have done it just so he could claim he was a high school track star, and it had nothing to do with the girls that were actually at the school. There's just no reason to automatically assume "pedophile rapist," but I guess outrageous conclusions and ridiculous overreactions are what the internet is for. Honestly I think this says more about how some people seem to think 23 is all that old.

Also, that thing you mentioned about Medic's new gas mask? Well, I was curious, and went to the workshop to look it up, myself. Here's a bit of text from the earliest version available.
>Re-uploaded with a bit less accidentally anti-semististic name.
>Sorry if I offended someone.
So either this person is lying or you were misinformed. Both conclusions are equally plausible.

Back on topic, I guess one thing about the fandom that bothers me is when people take the game too seriously. It is a nonsensical game about mercs laughing, having fun, and killing the shit outta each other. They've been hired by brothers that absolutely hate each other since birth, that have lived well past their time thanks to some magic Australian metal powered machines (and I will miss them terribly). Everything's managed and oversaw by an older lady who seems to hate everything except massive amounts of bloodshed. And you can run around and punch robots! One of the reasons I love the game so much is because it doesn't take itself seriously in the slightest, which sets it apart from most every other shooter out there these days, so seeing people taking little aspects and jokes from it and making huge deals, taking it more seriously than the creators probably imagined, and getting so butthurt over it... I dunno, it just pushes all the wrong buttons on me. It's like I want to say to them, "This game is supposed to be fun. Stop trying to take the fun away."

Also wow was this a much longer post than I intended it to be.
>> No. 13016
The thing that pisses me off about the Track Terrorizer drama on tumblr (and here - yes, I'm looking at you, anon #13011) is that people are taking it way too fucking seriously. Some people have panic attacks thinking about Scout hitting on high-school seniors. Posts about Scout are tagged with ‘trigger warning: statutory rape’. Scout fans are called out for being rape culture supporters.

The blurb for the Track Terrorizer is hilarious because Scout will never get laid. The joke about him running fast and dying a virgin wouldn’t be so funny (and endlessly repeated in memes) if it wasn’t true. Countless afanfics have been written about Scout having his first sexual experience with one of the other mercenaries (implied: because no women want him). It’s a core aspect of Scout’s character that he hits on everything with boobs and never gets lucky.

Flirting with a girl, even a minor, is not statutory rape.

Secondly, Americans, please realise that cultural differences do exist before accusing others of promoting paedophilia (and look up ‘paedophilia’ in a dictionary too, because sexual attraction towards late-teen girls is not it). The age of consent in my country is 16. High school students here are aged 16-19. I do not experience a visceral reaction of disgust and moral outrage over the Track Terrorizer because Scout's failed attempt at picking up a date is neither legally nor morally wrong in most of the Western World that isn’t the USA. This doesn’t make me a horrible person, nor Scout.
>> No. 13017
One of the most baffling things about the outrage over the Track Terrorizer is that another items in the very same update, the Medi-Mask, says that Medic conducts illegal medical experiments on people (implied to be civilians), and two people have died.

I haven't seen any outrage over that. At most, a few people have complained about the Medi-Mask's previous and non-canon name, not its current description.

(Tbh, even though TF2 is just a funny game and I know we are not meant to take it seriously, the idea that Medic casually murders random civilians with insane experiments did upset me... Yeah, I know, Medic once took a patient's skeleton out. But that incident was described in much vaguer terms, and it was something that happened in the distant past, it wasn't "these days Medic routinely takes random civilians's skeletons out." My personal headcanon is that the patient was a nazi anyway.)

So, Medic gets random innocent people killed for shit and giggles? Nobody cares.

23-year-old Scout attempts a wacky hijink to try and impress female students (who are most likely 17-18 anyway) so they'll want to sleep with him? THE HORROR! FIRE AND BRIMSTONES!

I do not experience a visceral reaction of disgust and moral outrage over the Track Terrorizer because Scout's failed attempt at picking up a date is neither legally nor morally wrong in most of the Western World that isn’t the USA. This doesn’t make me a horrible person, nor Scout.

Thank you.
>> No. 13018
In 1968, the age of consent was probably 16, so Scout would consider high-school-aged ladies legal.

Spy's committing adultery (and treason), where's all the moral outrage?
>> No. 13020
The only thing that bothers me about the Track Terrorizer is this: is 23 his age in 1968, or in 1972 when people are saying MvM takes place?
>> No. 13022
I looked it up. In the 60's, the age of consent was, indeed, 16, and wasn't raised until around the 90's. Unless you're talking homosexual relations. The age of consent for man-on-man lovins was 21.
>> No. 13025
I wasn't getting offended, nor have I ever been, I was just explaining why other people are mad. Just because someone's mad on Tumblr doesn't mean they automatically have a stupid reason.

Cyan, I thought we were friends.
>> No. 13028
I find it funny how up in arms the Tumblr culture gets about anything remotely rapey. Or even suspect.

Most of them are probably like 16-17, and think "OMG A 23 YEAR OLD HITTING ON A GIRL MY AGE HE'S A PREDATOR OMG". As opposed to a 23 year old, who is more likely to think, "Ha. Scout probably can't even impress teenagers."

Dude's a skinny little Johnny Bravo-type. He thinks he's hot shit, and hits on everything with a pair of tits, but recieves revulsion and possibly violence instead, due to his ego. It's a classic character type and one of my personal favourites.

I, too, am a bit disappointed at Medic being as apparently wanton a murderer of civilians. Before his shenanigans were cheeky and fun, but now they're cruel and tragic. Not really shenanigans at all.
>> No. 13029
>Cyan, I thought we were friends.

Oh, I’m not going to unfriend anyone over this. Several people I follow on tumblr are in the ‘Scout is a sexual predator’ brigade and I haven’t unfollowed any of them. I just find most of the reactions over-the-top hysterical. While I understand that psychological triggers exist and try to avoid or tag them appropriately, it’s obvious that some of the people making a fuss over this are doing so because they dislike Scout as a character and are making up for losing their previous ‘he looks like a minor and you’re a creep for liking him’ argument.

As Dotchan mentions, and as I have stated on tumblr (http://writingcyan.tumblr.com/post/31053091593/tf2-fandom-drama), most of the characters have committed far worse crimes than flirting with high-schoolers. And as Iz says, what Scout did is not actually illegal. In 1968, the age of consent in the USA was 16. According to Wikipedia, it still is in Massachusetts. So Scout has done nothing wrong and yet he’s still catching flak for it, as am I for having him as my favourite character. It’s wearing thin on me.

For the record, it’d be a lot easier to assure you that we’re still friends if you weren’t anonymous. You can let me know who you are; I don’t do drama over people agreeing to disagree on a subject of mutual debate.
>> No. 13030
It's fine. I'm not mad. I actually like Scout a lot (even if I can't play him often, his speed actually makes me dizzy), and I've gotten mad at people for making him lolicon or a uke in the past, because that's not like him. I guess I didn't realize the historical context, I apologize (or I was thinking of freshmen who were 14, 15 like I was).

I don't think Medic's mask ever explicitly said civilians, like Scout's jacket never explicitly said students. I think, yeah, we're all overreacting here. I figured he'd killed Helen's expendable spies, those guys with TV's on their chests.
>> No. 13031

This is how I feel. It's just completely ridiculous. I don't hate anyone over it but I really think people are overreacting

From what I've seen, only a few people are up in arms about it, and it seems to be the same people who get up in arms about everything in TF2. I don't have anything against them, but I kind of have a hard time believing someone would have a panic attack over this. It honestly just seems like another excuse to hate scout because you insist on demonizing him.

It's over the top and just plain stupid.
>> No. 13034
File 134714149244.png - (2.96KB , 184x172 , 1314301569245.png )
The most hilarious thing about this is how much of a double standard it is. Even if Scout's is in fact hitting on the students I doubht he's actually raping them, and there's no reason to believe he's actually successful in getting any.

Yet like half of all TF2 porn is about Scout constantly getting raped and abused by people who are probably twice his canonical age, all while being portrayed as a teenager. And this is supposed to be super hot and romantic and sexy. Yet the above, which doesn't even go this far, is somehow inhumane and makes him a monster.
>> No. 13036
I don't think it's the same people making up both camps, to be fair.
>> No. 13039
The tense for the Medi-Mask makes me think this is something Medic is doing to other mercenaries or people involved in RED/BLU, not civilians. From the description I always imagined he was doing it specifically to the other classes, who might be able to respawn anyway.
>> No. 13040

This is true.


This is what creeps me out so much about scout fanfiction. Half of it is scout being being fucked by men twice his age without consent (which he apparently "deserves"/turn out to be actually gay and/or actually like it so "it's fine") while the other half is writing scout like a homophobic brat who spouts the word fag like it ain't no thing and gets the shit beaten out of him. Then theres a small amount where scout is just some kid that hangs out with engie, or a just some brat in the background.

Honestly, I would love to see scouts various attempts to pick up woman more than anything. Or character depth of some kind, I don't know.
>> No. 13050
...shit. If I can coalesce something in my head, I may have to do a small pieces of Scout hittin' on bitches.

>captcha: broke fort pportera
Broke fort indeed, Captcha.
>> No. 13054

Please do? I'd love to read it
>> No. 13055
This is probably more a personal opinion than a genuine complaint, but I really dislike it when people use the official character names in their stories. It just doesn't gel for me if once character is called Dell and the rest of the characters are still referred to by their class titles. Maybe if all their names were revealed it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
>> No. 13056
It will be hilarious if there's a fanon class/canon class work.
Like, fanon spy disturbing canon spy for no reason as if he's an enemy even if they are in same team and trying faggy things to him or fanon scout being sissy weak uke bitch yelling ' you faggot!!' to canon scout and else.
>> No. 13057
I hate it (not really, hate is a strong word, more like dislike) when people tries to write fan fiction with these guys and they oblivious have no idea how guys work.

The thing that really ticks me off, is when someone write sex/romance fan fiction and one of the guys starts acting like a girl/woman.
Unusually Medic is a victim of this.

It's like people think that when your are gay, then one still have to act as/be a female.
>> No. 13058
>>13057 That's the same heteronormative "seme-uke" crap you see in any fandom where slash happens. Shit, I bet even the Star Trek slash women were writing in the 70's had a "woman" in the relationship (I bet it was Spock). Not to say it doesn't bug the hell out of me. Especially when it's Medic as the angsty, constantly embarrassed, effete sissy in the relationship. Because everyone knows muscle-men never bottom, it's against union rules!
>> No. 13061

Not to mention how much sass medic has. I can imagine him being effeminate maybe, but a damsel? Pfffffft, not without a fight. Or at least not without some sort of bitchy comments.

Medic is rarity
>> No. 13064
>Dat spoiler.

And now I love you. Medic is best pony.
>> No. 13067
Yeah I know, and about that - I fucking hate it when girls tell me they support gays only because they read that kind of crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a homophobe. But people who act like they know about gay relationships, becurse they read that kind of crap, are retared.
How can you actually think that fanfiction porn gives you any idea how a gay relationship works.

To me, it would be like saying - Yeah I know what love is, I've read Twillight.
>> No. 13070
Oh my god. All the super pro-gay rights activists in my high school were girls who carried shitty shoujo BL mangoes around with them all the time. Some of them really were into the social justice stuff, but they probably still had a really skewed idea of what gay relationships were like.

I've always been pro-gay rights ever since I even knew what the term "gay" meant, but until a few years ago I vehemently hated anything M/M related in fiction because of obnoxious fangirls and shippers and the fact that most of it was the aforementioned shoujo BL crap.
>> No. 13074
I first read BL manga after I'd already decided I supported gay rights. It was the only media I'd encountered that mentioned homosexuality at all, and at the time, I thought it portrayed it positively, so I was happy. I wouldn'tve read it had I known how inaccurate it was.

To be honest, I have issues with bara manga too, but only because it has the exact opposite problems as BL does.
>> No. 13120
Is it only me who thinks fanon is becoming some kinda prejudice or canon to regular male players who are not in fandom??
I was surprised to see some replies to a tf2 and ed, edd'n, eddy crossover video on youtube. In the video, spy was in Eddy's roll. But someone replied to the video that pyro or scout should have been Eddy instead of spy and that was all, literally.
Do you know what happened to that reply? it was reported as spam. It was just nothing more than an opinion, neither offense nor advertisement was implied.
While it was reported as spam, the objecting reply that scout shouldn't play bad, mean and sneaky character got agree from 115 people, even ranked as the best reply of the video. Does it contain a good explanation? Not at all. It was just only a sentence like the spamed one.
>> No. 13121
You may want to support that argument with something a little more substantial than YouTube comments. They are not exactly known for being mature and intelligent.

Anyway, I wanted to ask a question: does anybody have any idea why some people are saying that MvsM takes place in 1972?

As far as I know, neither the game nor the comics have a date, just a vague "some time in the future" line. Even the blog posts don't mention any date. Yet, for some reason, the official wiki says that the date is "1972 (unconfirmed)."


What's with the apparently random date that never appears in any material and with the unconfirmed part? Did a wiki editor just make it up?
>> No. 13122

Actually, this really confused me too. I mean, the only canon date we got was 'some time in the future,' but suddenly people were saying that MvM took place in the 1970s. I just thought that by 'some time in the future,' Valve meant 'a few days (of real life time)' or 'whenever we feel like releasing this game mode.'

Maybe I missed something, but I don't see any evidence that MvM actually has a set date.
>> No. 13123

I don't think that have anything to do with anything other than it being youtube.

Most people mark comments as spam, if they don't like the opinion in that comment. You will find that on almost every big video.
>> No. 13124

Wait, I'm sorry, what does this have to do with male players exactly?
>> No. 13125
It says in the comic that the Mann brothers were born in 1822, and then Gray Mann comes in, and says he's been watching them for 150 years.

1822+150= 1972.

That's gotta be it.
>> No. 13126
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.

I guess this is also why the 1972 is "unconfirmed". 150 is a round number, if something has been happening for 147 or 153 years the natural tendency is to say that it has been happening for 150 years.
>> No. 13127

Ahh, thank you. I was seriously confused about that. That makes sense. I just thought fans were talking out of their asses or something.
>> No. 13128
I heard that most of tf2 related video watchers on youtube were male players. So I thought they had replied on the video, too.
>> No. 13129
It's 1968.

It has always been 1968.

We are at war.

We have always been at war.
>> No. 13133
Goddamn you. You had be slapping my head trying to remember what that was from, and when I got home it finally hit me.

Literally. I was putting books away and 1984 fell off the shelf and hit me in the back. Thank god I'm too cheap to buy hardcovers.
>> No. 13213
That depressing moment when you realize there are people who genuinely believe gay characters only exist in canon to placate fangirls and that they cannot exist for any other reason (like, you know, because they were intended to be gay even before the fandom existed).

This isn't exclusively related to TF2, and I have no idea what the characters' canon sexualities are or were, but it just makes me sad.
>> No. 13241
I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I think it's funny nonetheless.

I think it's hilarious when people in this fandom freak out over porn.
>> No. 13247
Depends on the reason. If they're freaking out because they don't like porn of TF2 specifically, or are horrified that men are being shipped together/might possibly be gay, they're idiots.

If they're freaking out about porn period because they're either very sheltered or grew up with very stern, religious parents like I did, it's understandable.
>> No. 13348
File 13519198024.jpg - (94.96KB , 293x312 , spynon.jpg )
>>people who claim fanart from 2009 is fanart for their fanfiction they wrote in 2011
>>or that a picture the artist drew for themselves is fanart of their OC
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