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File 134993280651.png - (1.15MB , 1000x750 , brody_2fort_001.png )
6678 No. 6678
Hey y'all,
I'm taking a shot at drawing some TF2 in a more serious image than I've previously done. 'More serious' here having the meaning of it's not a chibi or a SpyCrab. I would really appreciate some feedback on this drawing, so I will be livestreaming on October 11th at 9 PM (Central Time).
For anyone who would like to give me some critique while I work on it, point out any derps I happen to make, or to just watch, feel free to come by.
My Livestream is http://www.livestream.com/WF1187?t=839808
Thank you.
Expand all images
>> No. 6679
Livestream is online now.
http://www.livestream.com/WF1187?t=839808
>> No. 6684
File 135036889740.png - (266.42KB , 800x600 , SpyvsMedic_sketch1.png )
6684
Before I go about cleaning it up, I would like some feedback on the sketch.
If you see any anatomical derps or posing issues, please bring it to my attention.

I will be livestreaming the rest of the process this Wednesday, Oct 17th at 9 PM (Central) if anyone wants to watch and/or give critique.
http://www.livestream.com/WF1187?t=839808
>> No. 6685
>>6684
I know it’s your style or whatever, but Medic’s eyes are too big for his face. There just isn’t room for them, so they end up looking out of place, like they don’t really belong in that particular cranial structure. Spy’s eyes, on the other hand, look just fine, and they fit well. You should do exactly as you've done with him to Medic as well.
Medic’s nose looks like an andelite nose. This is probably because he doesn’t have a distinct nasal septum and the tip of his nose is missing—or at least that’s the impression I get from the lines you’ve placed. There’s also this line above Medic’s near nostril, which I think represents the edge defining the side of his nose from the bottom, but what it looks like at a glance is that Medic has either a scar or some really weird nostrils. I'd just get rid of that line. You can create distinction between planes when you get the shading phase.

The way Spy is going about slitting Medic’s throat doesn’t make a great deal of sense. First of all, he’s restraining Medic by his near arm, and then going through the trouble of reaching behind Medic to slit his throat from the near side, too. That leaves Medic’s entire front and far side completely uninhibited, so that if Medic does what any self-respecting vertebrate would do and struggles, he could very easily slip away from Spy. To add to that, Spy’s using this unwieldy driving grip—a grip useful only for applying a lot of pressure to the point of the knife when finesse is of very little importance—which means that he’s going to have a hell of a time adjusting if Medic starts to squirm. And he’s doing a few other things wrong, as well, but those two things are what ruin the impression that Spy is in control and Medic is in serious trouble.
What Spy should be doing is reaching around in front of Medic, so that his arm cutting off his escape route, and so that he can move his hand from one side of Medic’s throat to the other in an easy movement. For that, he would want a parrying grip—like he uses to butterknife Medics when their incompetent Heavies fail to notice the epic Spy vs Medic battle going on directly behind them—which allows him a great deal of movement and control, so that if he had to he could finish the job with, literally, a flick of the wrist.
>> No. 6686
Thank you for the critique, I appreciate it. This is the second time I've drawn a Medic and the first time for Spy.
I do have a tendency to draw bigger eyes, they're my favorite part of the face to use for expression. However, I will adjust them and see if shrinking them helps.
I'm not quite sure what an andelite is, but I'm aware his nose looks funny. I usually do not draw very detailed noses, but I will work more on correcting it. Some of the lines included are just placements for me to later place heavier shading, so not all of the finer lines will be visible.
I noticed the knife placement didn't make as much sense the day after I did the sketch, so I agree. I will be changing that during the Livestream tonight.
>> No. 6688
Anatomically, it's really not bad for a sketch. But I agree with the the other reviewer. Medic's eyes are just too big. He has no forehead. Take a look in the mirror. Is there only an inch between your eyebrows and your hairline? You might be able to get away with the bigger eyes if you just made his head big enough to accomodate them, but that might also completely change the look of the picture, so you have to decide what's best.
>> No. 6695
File 135095144928.png - (287.06KB , 800x600 , SpyvsMedic_sketch2.png )
6695
I appreciate the critique received so far, it has helped a lot. Here is the updated sketch.
Fixes:
I shrank Medic's eyes, lowered the eyebrows, and raised his hair to give him more forehead space.
Redrew Medic's nose. It actually looks like a nose now instead of whatever the feck that was before.
Fixed the Spy's knife hand and arm position. I may have to tweak his hand some more though. But now Medic has no room for escape.

I may have the next Livestream for this drawing this Wednesday: Oct 24th at 9 PM (Central) if anyoen wants to tune in and give further critique.
>> No. 6708
File 135207894041.jpg - (243.04KB , 1000x688 , surprise.jpg )
6708
Having started drawing with the anim* style, I noticed that you also struggle with the same problem I do--you exaggerate the width of the face such that it "overruns" its natural boundaries and it looks too flat as a result.

Your face needs to have a much better defined front. That means the eyes and mouth need to stay within the correct proportions.

Spy's nose is also the wrong shape. He's got that hawk-like beak for a bridge, not the weird banana thing you've got on there now.

The two characters are also not interacting in a realistic fashion and look more like they're posing for a photoshoot than having a battle to the death. If you can't grab a victim buddy to try this yourself, try looking up images with the key words "close quarters combat knife".
>> No. 6716
Thank you for the critique, although I do have to say I don't agree with most of it. I realize the Medipack strap is wonky, which has been fixed, and as mentioned before I'm still working on the nose department. However, most everything else what a stylization choice. One of the things that is fun to play with using 2D art is that you can warp planes, faces, and the such to achieve a certain look.
Also, would you kindly elaborate on 'anime style?' Because that term always confuses me, as 'anime' could apply to a large variety of stylized cartoons than span nearly 100 years.
>> No. 6717
>>6716

I realize that calling it "Animesque" isn't very descriptive, but it's precisely that exaggeration of facial features that I'm personally trying to wean myself from, so when I notice someone else doing it, I want to point it out in case they weren't aware of what they were doing.
>> No. 6719
>>6716
I'm afraid you don't get to hide behind style here. Style doesn't excuse you from anything. Even if it is "your style," and you do it on purpose, if it makes your art look like a big pile of mistakes, then it's a problem that needs to be fixed. Simply because you choose to call it "style" does not make it sacred and untouchable.
>> No. 6720
File 135301561147.png - (539.13KB , 1910x1048 , SpyvsMedic_refcomp.png )
6720
@ dotchan: Understandable, but as a cartoonist I've learned that having exaggerated facial expressions makes portraying emotions much easier than staying within natural human boundaries. This style isn't limited to anime, and not all anime use that style. Look to any cartoon and you'll see that just about any cartoon will go as far as to break a character's facial boundary to portray a simple emotion. To be honest, Japanese animators got that very idea from American cartoons.

@ Annonymous, since you want to hide behind a lack of a name: I'm afraid the point of fanart is to draw known characters, incorporating your style, while still making the characters recognizable. The difference between stylization and a 'pile of mistakes' is the difference between having some exaggeration and having broken bones, dislocated limbs, and ridiculously misplaced body parts. Otherwise, if you want to tell me that stylizing makes the image look wrong, then you may want to take a better look at the subject game, where every character has extremely large hands, elongated torsos, and short legs (minus the Sniper and Medic).
To go as far, I don't care for the Adventure Time cartoon's style because every single character looks like they're made of jelly. But I'm not going to call it a 'big pile of mistakes' because their arms bend in five different places, because that is the 'style' of the cartoon.
Stylization doesn't also have to apply to crazy cartoons, there is a place between realism and cartoon that uses natural appearances with some warping. That is the style I use. If you don't agree, that is not my problem.

For anyone curious, I am supplying the facial references I used, using the actual models. I did not use GMod for expression references.
>> No. 6721
1) The face is a minor problem compared to my other beef, that of body language. There's no tension in this pic at all. Please, please, please do a Spy/Medic fight to the death more justice than this.
2) Any long-running series in any drawn medium, art evolution aside, has this thing called "Being On Model". Sometimes, it's okay to exaggerate for the sake of a quick animated sequence or a single panel wild take, but in general staying as close as possible to the character as designed is Serious Business. Mickey Mouse, for example, is such an iconic character that his animators have had to redraw cels from scratch just for getting his ears wrong.
3) Even considering the way that their heads are positioned, Spy and Medic don't have the same size eyes and their mouths kind of stretched to one side. I used to do that in my own art so much that my characters looked like they're having a stroke. In comparison, you're art is positively realistic in comparison. I don't know about the other people giving you their opinions, but I am not making a value judgement on your style, just pointing out a possible shortcoming in it.
>> No. 6731
>>6721
Personally I rather like the body language. It make me think that in the rush of a fast-paced battle, the Spy ran up behind the Medic, catching him quite off his guard. (Medic somewhere between shock and confusion, and spy looks like he's in the middle of rushing from one place to another) Not exactly a struggle or "fight to the death" type scenario. Also my first immediate impression was that I love spy's expression. Whether people like the exaggeration of expression, or if it looks real or not, idk, but my first impression what that is was great.

The only thing I'd have to bring up (hate to bring up something new, but...) is that the blade doesn't quite look like it does in game. (I main spy and see that thing so stinking much) It's more correct in the very first one where Spy is reaching around the Medic.

Overall, I very much like.
>> No. 6734
It honestly isn't what I'd define as a 'fight.' A fight more or less entails an active struggle between two parties. This is more of Spy doing what he does best, which is sneaking up and taking a victim by surprise. Like the recent poster said. I do have a part 2 to this image planned, perhaps it'll be more along the lines of the fight to the death justice hoped for.
Yes, I'm aware of what on-model means. I got a degree in animation earlier this year, so I spent the past 4 1/2 years learning about the whole nine yards. However, even with maintaining model specifics, there will always, always be flukes because artists and animators will have variations in their methods. 3D can avoid this because the model is pretty much set. Shoot, half the time the characters in the official TF2 comics don't look like the characters in the game *cough Medic cough*. I could go into an entire rant about being on-model, but that's...unnecessary.
As for the mouths, I tried altering the smile and it just looked really strange every way I did it. So I went with the least strange-looking. Otherwise, when they fixed the face poser in GMod (as much as GMod can fix a face poser), that's about how it looked at that angle. I just stretched the smile even further than the model would go without Spy's cheeks extending beyond his ears.

On the knife: it's about the same as the first image, all I did was turn it sideways. I realizaed that the sharp end of the blade wasn't even touching Medic's throat while laying flat like that, so I had to re-angle it to be more threatening. Weapons are something I'm still working on though. (Dat Medigun...URGH)

Thank y'all for the critiques, they have been helpful. This one is currently fully inked and I'm gonna start coloring it soon.
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