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No. 1295
For real, this place is deader than a door nail (what the hell kind of saying is that anyhow?) Is this site dead, did everyone just leave?
Expand all images
>> No. 1296
Pretty sure a lot of people left, especially since the fandom became more centered on tumblr. That, and a lot of older fans are no longer in the fandom, and the younger ones are underage so they couldn't post here anyway.
>> No. 1297
tumblr sucks. every time i post something that's not anon people rip me to shreds for it. i'll always be here, lurking.
>> No. 1298
On the other hand, those that stayed or are new are having a hard time getting recognized, so show them some love if you see them doing something you like.

Also, keep in mind many fandoms have people who use fandom work as a springboard to get a fanbase so they can do original work later on, which is what I think a lot of people did. Or their interest only extended to a crush on one particular character. Those that stay are mostly in it for the game, or for multiple characters.
>> No. 1299
I honestly only use Tumblr for this fandom. It sucks if everyone really did just up and leave this place.
>> No. 1300
I know a couple of people struggling with exams right now. Or they're oddly crippled by self-doubt due to lack of interest from the fandom on the whole, including hipstr. I, for one, was busy with GhostFort and my wedding, and now I'm overseas on holiday.

Personally I always found the Chan's high visibility and pacing to my liking, which gives everyone even footing and a chance to have their work seen. Unlike hipster, which is sink-or-swim, keep-up-with-the-cool-kids rushing all the time. Plus, the crowd here never ceases to amuse and I fucking love anons
>> No. 1301
I don't see why there needs to be any animosity between tumblr and here--it seems to me that most people check both and post on both. And honestly, things seem a bit dead on tumblr as well--I know a lot of the artists and writers I used to love have sort of moved on to new things and put TF2 on the backburner, and as for myself, I just straight up do not have the time to write when I'm in school. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed things slowing down, though...
>> No. 1302
No I've noticed it too, and it's a crying shame but maybe in a few months people who left for stuff like exams and the like will be back.
>> No. 1303
Yeah, even the last few new fic posts here didn't get responses, I wouldn't count on new content garnering much attention, unless you're a decent artist asking for critique, and even then... maaaaybe you'll get a response.

And like Knight said, activity is kinda down everywhere, whether or not it has to do with holidays or exams, doesn't seem to matter, as even an official Halloween update with mildly entertaining content didn't result in a whole lot more activity. Feels like it's plateaued.
>> No. 1304
the fandom is only dead to people who are paying attention to a few older artists who left
expand your view and youll see other artists who push out fanart after fanart
it's far from dead it's actually really hopping but a lot of the new artists coming in are underage so thats why you dont see them on tf2chan
>> No. 1305
>>10

I agree with erichm. It seems to me that the activity around TF2Chan specifically waned after a bunch of the old namefag artists left for bumblr but, to be honest, a lot of them were whiny cocksuckers anyway. inb4 I get called a butthurt jealous no-talent hater I like the smaller crowd (And I know there's a crowd, because if there wasn't, no one would have commented on this thread.) I would post more here, but I just don't have the time. Over break I'll be able to post some more fics and stuff.

If anyone writes genfic or even non-adult shipping, the /fanfic/ board could really use some new blood. I posted there three weeks ago and my crap story is still on the front page.
>> No. 1306
Sucks, I love tf2, but there is like hardly anything or anyone and with tumblr it's just... Unorganized.
>> No. 1307
I added a couple things to the /fic fairly recently but it must not have been to anyone's taste, since no one commented - that's the rough part about posting anon anywhere, you don't know if people liked it without any comments. But yeah, I can continue to post there at least just to have something new.
>> No. 1308
>>11

I never said anyone was a whiny cocksucker
>> No. 1310
I don't venture into the chan much, but I figured I'd toss out an unpopular opinion anyhow. Personally, I feel that the game has been cheapened by too many mediocre updates and valve's new, larger focus on profits. Tf2 has lost it's appeal, plain and simple. And precisely because it's strayed from what had originally made it so intoxicating. That and maybe because Valve laid off of a large portion of the artists, art directors and animators behind the original game.

I played the game way before I ever drew any fan art for it and frankly, I miss the dystopian, cold-war era feel of the old team fortress 2. That darker subtext and uncanny nature of the game I came to love. I would much rather have the update-less old xbox360 version of the Tf2 back, than the joke that is Team Dress-up 2.
>> No. 1311
I've been a lurker on here for a really long time, so I've seen the slump in activity on here. I don't think its 'dead', per-say, but I definitely think its been pretty slow.

I have to agree with Desole about the game.
I guess I don't mind the back story they added in, but then again it was pretty interesting keeping the game's story ambiguous. The hats and items, I think, have gotten a little out of control.
I mean, I have TF2 on Steam and I check the page every now and then, but I hardly play it.
I prefer the Xbox 360 version myself, and its still pretty active on there as far as players.
>> No. 1312
People post things and are harshly criticized and insulted. Of course barely anyone wants to post things anymore. It's a community where people could have had good fun congregating around adult-themed fan works for an over-to-top FPS game, but... well, that's not how things were run around here.

And frankly, this site is nothing special, and there's plenty of competition for people's eyeballs. People have voted with their time and have chosen where they'd rather post.
>> No. 1313
It's really annoying how some people have to be so damn rude when the authors just want to share their stories and ask for constructive critique. Some of my favorite fics died because of that. Then again, I think people should be able to take critique when they post their stories here. Not insults or anything like that, but when someone really has some ideas of how to improve the story or style they might take it personally. It doesn't even have to be insulting to make some authors flip the table. Some of the threads have died after people have just tried to help.
People have the right to tell their own opinions, but there are so many different ways to do that.
>> No. 1314
i agree with desole too, i think.

like, before, tf2 would get an update and i'd be excited to play, but now it's like "eh." like the recent update for mvm, with the town where medic was born. i just don't care anymore.

i agree with >>18 too. this place was always known for being Harsh, and in reality a lot of people, anon and not, were Flat-Out Insulting. but it was the only place to get a lot of good stuff. tumblr now has a lot of the good stuff too, And it's nicer. And more people are there. so it makes sense everyone went there.

and yeah, the fandom is slow on tumblr too. no one is adding anything new or interesting, just the same old pairings doing the same old things. i tell you, i was sick of crossfaction sniper/spy like 2 years ago, and that's still all there is. i don't see anyone doing anything fun or new anymore. and the one secret santa attempt i saw was really weird, and the organizer wanted people to sign up by the beginning of october.

i have had problems with my creative motivation and mental health all year, but i wish i could force myself to draw just so i could help give some life back to this fandom.
>> No. 1315
also, i dont think the layout helped much. i usually don't care about layout changes, but the last one made things harder to read.
>> No. 1316
For me, I posted a few things; of the three that I posted, one was not an afanfic, so it was barely responded to. One was a heavy/medic thing, which garnered a generally positive response until I got too busy to finish it. One was an engie/solly affair, and after a while of getting nothing but strong criticism for it I lost all interest in continuing it.

Granted, maybe people aren't following the right folks on tumblr; I see new stories and art on a daily basis, and it's actually less common for me to find the common pairings because of who I follow.

I won't speak much on the game; most of the aesthetic additions come from fans now and are highly approved by the fans. I'm happier with a goofy game set in the late 60's than with yet another dark and gritty serious game.

For all of tf2chan's tough attitudes, harsh critiques, and insta-bans for emoticons, it is a surprisingly childish place. The addition of little animated dicks raining down on the screen adds absolutely nothing besides the need to refresh the page and a limitation on where I can view the site. It's like a final "fuck you" for trying to see if anything updated or not. I also felt that unless I wrote a particularly erotic piece or was well known here, I wasn't really welcome. Maybe that's the environment that the 'chan wanted to have, but it certainly doesn't attract new people when there's a much friendlier and easier to filter place.
>> No. 1317
i have to agree with the crit vs. insults thing that people keep mentioning. that was just fucking insane. i really don't understand how that was tolerated. i've seen some authors get literally torn to shreds, told that their fic is shit. that's not constructive crit, that's just mean. and then y'all wonder why no one comes back.

maybe the handful of us here can bring the chan back to life... be the change we want to see, you know? maybe we could change these attitudes and be a more welcoming place. then maybe people would come back.

just a thought.
>> No. 1318
>>23
I don't think i could agree more.
Captcha: The answer
It's a sign
>> No. 1319
>>23
This. Exactly. Others and myself have been saying this for ages.

Venting your grievances only goes so far. If even half the energy that has gone into this thread was spent supporting and giving feedback to the few dwindling contributors we have left, things would be a lot livelier around here.

>>20
I hope you find the motivation you need and/or get over your hang ups soon. Coming back to this place, getting off my arse and involved with the community is what got me into writing and drawing again, after years of crippling anxiety. Hopefully something will click for you, one day, too!
>> No. 1320
A lot of people are also turned off by how toxic some of the more popular artists are, like erichmcbrain and sarcasmosaur.
>> No. 1321
>>26
a lot of people I don't know what kind of drama is going on, but I don't see how interpersonal issues that do not [currently] exist on the chan have anything to do with the topic at hand.
>> No. 1322
26
i think they meant that some of the "big name" artists get to act like complete jerks and everyone tolerates it. i've definitely seen this.

just my personal thought. if you think that we are exaggerating, keep in mind, how many people feel this way and aren't posting?
>> No. 1323
Sarcasmosaur isn't even in the fandom anymore...
>> No. 1324
Sarcasmosaur isn't even in the fandom anymore...
>> No. 1325
>>26

She's not toxic at all, she's very sweet and was bullied so intensely by some of the people in the chan and elsewhere, and she left.

Erich isn't toxic either. I don't follow them on Tumblr because I don't ship the same things they ship, but I like their artwork a ton.
>> No. 1326
Wait.. something just clicked..

Did >>26 mean to say "erich and sarcasm are some of the people turned off by BNF behaviour"?

If that's the case then sorry, I misunderstood you as saying they are the toxic people. Hence my confusion.
>> No. 1328
>>31
She's not toxic at all, she's very sweet and was bullied so intensely by some of the people in the chan and elsewhere, and she left.
Sarcasmosaur is a tragic figure in the TF2 fandom, so damaged by the bullying she endured in high school that she felt forever victimised and became blind to her own bullying of others. I’m sure she could be very nice to the people who shared her OTP, but woe unto anyone “breaking up” Heavy/Medic or liking Scout, who reminded her of her past bullies. With my Medic/Scout OTP, I was repeatedly and cruelly targeted by her. However, I know she is the victim more than I, a victim of her own damaged psyche and internalised emotional pain, and wherever she is now, I hope she will find the means to heal her wounds and achieve some peace of mind.

>>23
maybe the handful of us here can bring the chan back to life... be the change we want to see, you know? maybe we could change these attitudes and be a more welcoming place. then maybe people would come back.
I wouldn’t mind offering people constructive criticism on their fics; I already do that from time to time. I guess I could try to do so more consistently? There aren’t really that many fics being posted at the moment, though.

I also think some people have left due to the increase of tumblr-style Social Justice. The ‘chan used to be an ‘anything goes’ kind of place, but recently there has been a demand for warnings (fair enough, though we’ve never used them before) and even instances of anonymous hate – I’m thinking in particular of Anne’s thread, ‘Seduction Plain and Simple’, in which a commenter repeatedly bashed Anne for causing panic attacks and triggering PTSD, until the story was left unfinished. Anne has not posted a story to the ‘chan since and has almost stopped writing TF2 fanfics on tumblr. I also have two finished stories on my hard-drive which I have not posted due to concerns of backlash over the dub-con/non-con content – the first story I posted to the ‘chan, the Medic/Scout story ‘Addiction’, has earned me a number of anon hate messages on tumblr and a petition to have me fired from my job.
>> No. 1329
My 2 cents on why I'm currently not writing 'fic:

1) Life happened. When I started writing, I was mostly unemployed. Now I'm working 30 hours a week and I'm working through health issues that make it literally hurt to think, so I'm reluctant to invest time and energy into this hobby. (I'm not even playing that many video games any more!)
2) The updates have not only widened the gap between Story and Gameplay (what the hell does it mean for us plebs still playing the game now that The Cannon Classes have all been fired from their jobs?), it's changed a lot of the classes from Archetypes to actual Characters, and I have fewer ideas about what each of The Classes are like than what the particular (non-canon) instance of A Class.
3) Lack of significant feedback. As nice as it is to have the occasional ego-boosting comment along the lines of "OMG that was awesome plz write more", what I was looking for (and what TF2chan seemed to promise) was detailed constructive criticism. I've gotten very little of that, which is frustrating because I know my skills need work.
>> No. 1330
>>35
1) Life happened. When I started writing, I was mostly unemployed. Now I'm working 30 hours a week and I'm working through health issues that make it literally hurt to think, so I'm reluctant to invest time and energy into this hobby. (I'm not even playing that many video games any more!)
Dotchan, I hear you. When I joined the fandom, I was a college student. Now I’m working a full-time+ job and taking extra classes on the side, and it’s sapping my energy to the point where I stumble into my apartment and then into bed in one straight motion. I even had to take a three-week break from tumblr after suffering a mini-breakdown from stress. Adult life is often incompatible with fandom participation, and like anon >>2 I think a lot of the old regulars left the fandom when they started working. Struggling with health issues on the side only makes it more difficult! I hope your health improves soon.

2) The updates have not only widened the gap between Story and Gameplay (what the hell does it mean for us plebs still playing the game now that The Cannon Classes have all been fired from their jobs?), it's changed a lot of the classes from Archetypes to actual Characters, and I have fewer ideas about what each of The Classes are like than what the particular (non-canon) instance of A Class.
Yes, I agree; this is definitely part of the issue. It was fun to write fanfics when the field was open to wild speculation, but now you have to pay attention to canon characterisation and continuity to a much larger degree. I still think a lot can be done within the canon storyline, especially if we employ episode references like other fandoms (e.g. pre-Smissmas Story or Post-War!), but it sucks to have a story retconned by Valve themselves and maybe that deters some people from writing and posting new fics.

3) Lack of significant feedback. As nice as it is to have the occasional ego-boosting comment along the lines of "OMG that was awesome plz write more", what I was looking for (and what TF2chan seemed to promise) was detailed constructive criticism. I've gotten very little of that, which is frustrating because I know my skills need work.
Dotchan, from what I’ve read of your recent work, you’re mostly posting flash- or microfiction these days, and I’m proficient in neither. Also, your writing is of a sufficiently high quality not to trigger my Crap Detector, which is usually what provokes me into commenting here. However, I wouldn’t mind giving your stories what constructive criticism I can, if it would be of help to you? Just point me to your nearest fic.

To be honest, although tumblr is a very poor medium for fiction, I sadly don’t think TF2chan offers much in the ways of visibility that tumblr doesn’t, but maybe the ‘chan can serve as a place to work on and improve fics and art before posting them elsewhere, much like the now-deleted /workshop subforum?
>> No. 1331
>>34

One, she never bullied anyone.

Two, for all your "this is an all-ship blog", you've tried to "disprove" Heavy x Medic a couple times and rub it in peoples' faces ("aw, Heavy didn't go to Medic's house, but Spy and Scout are together, Heavy x Medic ship sunk"). I wouldn't want to deal with that, either.
>> No. 1332
>>37

I let my anger get the best of me, apologies. Forget I wrote that.
>> No. 1333
However, I wouldn’t mind giving your stories what constructive criticism I can, if it would be of help to you? Just point me to your nearest fic.
Awesome! I'm unfortunately not writing anything these days, but everything I have completed and feel good about seeing the light of day is on my website at http://dotchan.com/
>> No. 1334
Hey guys regardless of what you think of them as a person, could you at least use the right pronouns for sarcasmosaur.
>> No. 1335
>>40
Hey guys regardless of what you think of them as a person, could you at least use the right pronouns for sarcasmosaur.
I didn’t realise Sarcasmosaur had elected to switch pronouns. I apologise for unintentionally misgendering them! Does anyone know if they are okay with the third-person plural or would prefer another set of pronouns?

>>37 >>38
One, she never bullied anyone.
It does you credit to stand up for your friend, anon, but sometimes being a true friend requires you to step back and objectively evaluate whether your friend is using harmful coping mechanism to deal with past trauma. In this case, Sarcasmosaur clung so desperately to the idea of Heavy/Medic as the romantic love ideal that any pairing interfering with it was seen as a threat to the happiness of Heavy and Medic and therefore to the happiness of Sarcasmosaur themselves, and any person supporting a conflicting pairing became the target of overt or covert hostility.

What animosity there was between us, however, was all on Sarcasmosaur’s part. I even wrote a Heavy/Medic gift fic for them inspired by their bittersweet Valentine’s Day drawing; it’s still listed in my Master Fic List on tumblr. Apart from that, I have never interacted directly with Sarcasmosaur, nor posted about them on my tumblr, nor sent them messages, not reblogged their art with anything but praise for their skills, and I wish them good luck in their future endeavours.

Two, for all your "this is an all-ship blog", you've tried to "disprove" Heavy x Medic a couple times and rub it in peoples' faces ("aw, Heavy didn't go to Medic's house, but Spy and Scout are together, Heavy x Medic ship sunk"). I wouldn't want to deal with that, either.
1) Fictional pairings are not scientific hypotheses and cannot be ‘proven’ or ‘disproven’, regardless of whether they’re canon or not; they’re validated only by your ability to image their relationship.

2) I believe the post you refer to is this: http://writingcyan.tumblr.com/post/59550195773/so-let-me-get-this-straight. I challenge you to find the phrase “Heavy x Medic ship sunk” anywhere in that post or in any other post on my blog; in fact, I expressed a stab of emotional pain at the lack of Valve’s usual Heavy/Medic ship-teasing. Heavy/Medic isn’t my main pairing but I do ship it, as the 140+ tagged Heavy/Medic posts and handful of fanfics on my blog attest to. I also ship Medic/Scout, Heavy/Scout, Heavy/Medic/Scout, Medic/Soldier, Medic/Sniper, Medic/Demo, Heavy/Spy, etc, etc. enthusiastically and voraciously; deal with that as you may.

I feel we have stumbled off-topic with this line of posts, however, so I would appreciate if any future comments were directed to my tumblr ask box.

>>39
Awesome! I'm unfortunately not writing anything these days, but everything I have completed and feel good about seeing the light of day is on my website at http://dotchan.com.
Since this is an exercise in reanimating the ‘chan, would you be okay with me creating a ‘Constructive Criticism’ thread and posting any comments I might have on your fics there?
>> No. 1336
I'm so happy there's some daily talking going on now, browsing through the other boards & not seeing anything posted for months was so depressing to come back to. I was here a couple years or so ago, mid 2011-ish. Don't know if anyone remembers me, I was on the roleplay side of the fandom.

I left for no particular reason, just kinda got distracted I guess. Decided to visit the chan a couple days ago (when it was down, actually). I really miss this place.

Anyway, hey guys.
>> No. 1337
mfw you people are all in this thread whining about how no one is here/getting into arguments instead of going out and posting shit on other parts of the chan
mfw you're all part of the problem mfw I'm part of the problem as well
Look guys, this is the last I'm going to post on this stupid thread. Everyone has their own thoughts and feelings about the Chan. Everyone also has their own thoughts and feelings about bumblr. Here's my (rather late) take on the subject, and even though I'm just a lowly troll anon, I hope some of you will listen up, because I've been posting here for a while.

We get it. Things happen on the internet. People are dicks and they either get their feelings hurt or your feelings are hurt by their actions. Understandable. I know a few people in this fandom I personally can't fucking stand, but you know what? I get over it. I keep doing what I like to do for people whom I like.

This is so fucking stupid, because every time we try to talk about shit seriously, some jerk derails the thread with personal attacks of some sort (or with claims of personal attacks) and then EVERYONE COMES FLOODING IN screaming about how awful the Chan is and how horrible people here are. People who haven't posted anywhere else on the chan in months are now posting in this thread because some idiot threw out a personal attack on someone else. (Or it was an unintentional personal attack, Idk. Names were said, and now people are upset/arguing because that’s the way they are.) This happened with the Boogaloo update too, if you all remember. The Chan was quiet, someone posted a thread about how they didn't like the update, and then suddenly the Chan was alive with the flames of a thousand butthurt basement dwellers.

Guess what? The people causing drama weren't part of the regular posters on the Chan. At one point, some of those people had been regulars, but if you look for the activity of those (trackable) people for the past six months, or even a year, you'll find that the regular activity has dwindled to nothing or to almost nothing. Of course, there are very few "regular" posters anymore. But the fact that people only come here when drama is happening and then complain about how TF2Chan sucks and is full of drama is complete shit. Yes, people can be mean here. People can also be mean on bumblr, too, if you haven't figured that out.

You know what? I've been posting here under an anon tag for about two years, and tbh, the Chan really hasn't changed much at all. I don't know what it was like in the old days, but to have it as quiet as it is now, but to have people 1) only show up when there's drama or 2) talk badly about a place they've never bothered to visit is absolutely infuriating.

Here's the tl;dr:

Get over the fact that people are jerks and let shit go. Things happen. People make mistakes or, alternatively, are piles of human excrement, and if you hold onto that forever then you let something you love become ruined over crap that literally doesn't matter. If you want to stay on TF2Chan and post things, stay. If you want to go to Tumblr and post things, go. If you want to post to both places, then do that. Just don't fucking sit around and bitch and moan about how awful one place is over the other. Be a fan of the game you fucking love, regardless of where you are and what you're doing.

Okay? Okay.

mfw people reading this take this as a personal attack and miss the point of this post
>> No. 1338
It's ironic to see Cyan accuse other people of feeling like a permanent victim, when Cyan takes every slight as a personal attack!
>> No. 1339
I suppose it's just irritating that there's no new content here; plenty of avid browsers, but nothing really new. There's not even the overabundance of overeager "critics" who would pick apart every tiny misplaced comma and tense failing while also grossly insulting the author.

And it's even more pathetic to see fangirling happen to bawl over the imagined slights against famous authors. I mean Christ, sarca was briefly mentioned and now that's the focus of everything (with a heaping helping of Cyan being the great Satan).

For a bunch of motherfuckers that act tough as nails it's obvious that the sheer effort of existing triggers half of you. Fucking hell.

Part of me wants to write here again, and part of me would consider it a gross waste of time and effort. So there's that. Idk.

Maybe the 'chan needs a revamping, but I feel like that would be met with heavy, and angry, resistance.
>> No. 1340
>>41

I genuinely didn't know anything had gone on, I only ever heard about this secondhand.

I'm sorry I got angry and misinterpreted your post. I hope there's no hard feelings.
>> No. 1341
Since this is an exercise in reanimating the ‘chan, would you be okay with me creating a ‘Constructive Criticism’ thread and posting any comments I might have on your fics there?
Sure! And you can email me directly if you have any comments about my non-TF2 stuff.
>> No. 1342
>>45

1. I'm not even half as mad as you think I am. Nor have I been triggered in any way.
2. I don't think Cyan's the devil. In fact, I like her a lot, and that's why I apologized and felt bad about being mad.
3. Please write again.
>> No. 1343
Am I the only one that are just getting tired of seeing this tread on the adult fanfiction board?
I know this is a relevant subject to talk about, but can't discussions like these not be moved to the actual discussion board which is provided?
It is just saddening watching this tread constantly being pushed to the top over peoples stories they have worked hard on.
I would honestly prefer being able just to enjoy people stories on this board, no matter how rarely they are posted lately, and keep talks like these to the discussions site
>> No. 1344
>>43
Thank you.

>>49
First we must sprinkle a salt circle. Have you prepared an offering? Next, hold hands and say: to /inception/!
>> No. 1345
>>44.

Eh, I’m only human.

>>46.

No problem, anon. Don’t worry about it!

>>47.

Thanks! I’ll take a look at your fics ASAP.

>>50.

Should we poke a moderator to make them move this, do you think? I don't know how frequently they browse the boards.
>> No. 1346
We refrained from moving this thread previously due to the fact it was a text board thread.

Glad to see moving the thread to an image board didn't break anything.
>> No. 1350
File 13872733194.jpg - (111.84KB , 500x500 , tumblr_inline_mrx52xnSNm1r3wlgi.jpg )
1350
I'd like this site to be more active again, especially considering that I've met so many friends through it and the site got me through one of the worst times in my life a few years back.

Even through all the drama, I still feel feel a sense of loyalty here, since the site has done a lot of good for me.

Maybe I'm an idiot for feeling that way.

I don't know.
>> No. 1351
>>1350
I know that feel,Cat.
>> No. 1352
>>1350

I've been coming here since the end of 2009, and yes like you I have a sense of loyalty coming here everyday. I may not be active in contributing much, but I hope I can slowly put more fics out and not just Secret Santa events. I think what really helps me out is the various community projects we're slowly adding onto.
>> No. 1354
File 138771431149.png - (41.88KB , 500x281 , sync.png )
1354
There's a reason I choose to stay active here and not go anywhere else. It's there in the good times and bad, the quiet times and the rowdy. It's in the quality of work, the attitudes of our contributors, and the fact there really never is a dull moment here. For me, anyway.

All that I'd like to see more of (and can see happening more and more these days) is people chilling out and piping up in discussions more. And people coming out of the woodwork to contribute their works. We have so many talented lurkers, haha.

The art boards are more lively lately than I remember them being a while back, which is incredible for a site so many have been declaring "dead." My only sad feel would be towards /dis/ being horribly lonely in terms of update discussions, but I guess there just aren't many people into the game any more..?

Anyway. If community projects are what people want and will keep this place fresh and active, then I certainly won't complain seeing more happen.
>> No. 1355
>>1354
I'd certainly be up for more events like the Secret Santa. The Halloween thing rocked, too, so we should definitely have something going on around then, like it.
A Valentine's Day SS event would be cool, too, maybe with a romance theme? Or one during the summer, too (Super Smutty Summer Secret Santa?) Might get some life back into these boards yet!
>> No. 1358
When you take a look around the various boards, there's a suprising amount of posts stating something along the lines of "I lurk, I don't post"... and it's sad to say that I'm the same. I stopped lurking in mid-2012 and came back a few days ago, only to find that the boards I frequented hadn't changed a lot. This is my first post. Christ.

Maybe it's a general contributing problem? As in anons having not having any /good original content/, and the ones that do (or think they do) are too scared to upload it to a place where it will not get a quick reaction telling them to keep it up or take it down. So they hinder themselves from this silly embarrassment by simply not posting at all.

I know that similar points have been made ITT, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
>> No. 1373
I used to be an active user here a few years ago, I was pretty popular in the fanart section.
I left, for a number of reasons really. Mainly because of all the drama and the bad mods.
But instead of talking about why we left, why not talk about how to improve the chan?


1) Give this place a make-over
I'm sure the pink scheme and all the flying dicks were fun when people were angst ridden teens, but we have all grown and maybe it's time the site grew with us too.

2) Delete all of the old drama stuff
I was gone from this place for a long while, I come back and pretty much every post is about stuff from the past. It makes this place seems like such a closed party, like "ok, there something going on, but I have no idea what it's about".

On that note, let go of the past. I can't be the only one sick of people constantly brining up old stuff and old drama, especially when I have no idea what it was about.


3) stop the bullying
It's really sad to see that bullying is still such a big problem here, even in this thread people are talking about an old user like it's their personal problem. The person is gone, end of story. There's no point in talking about him/her anymore, it makes you all seem like a bunch of kids.

4) Make this place more tolerant
Lets face it, a lot of people come here for the art/fictions, and I think it's great that this was one of the few places that was really big on giving criticism and teaching people how to improve.

But not everyone wants to improve, not everyone is an aspiring artist or author. Some people simply draw/write for the fun of it, but right now, the feel around the chan is that this place is an art/writers college.

If people make bad art/bad fiction and don't want to improve, other people should just refrain from commenting on it, then the poster would most likely stop posting anyway due to the lack of interest.
It's not fair that people with decent art/fiction has to be torn apart because they don't feel the need to improve their stuff to perfection.

5) Stop the t-umblr hate
I never understood this and it's really dumb.
What really annoys me about this, is that most of the people bitching about fumblr are on fumblr themselves. I don't get what this is about, but it should stop.

You don't like fumblr, fair enough, but no need to act like every person using fumblr is the asshole of the universe. It a very offensive attitude, and it's not helping any.
>> No. 1374
>>1373
i agree with everything except, the idea of "not every artist wants to improve" is a really immature mindset. if they dont want critique and they receive it, they can just ignore it and not respond to it or thank the critic for their input and move on.
when you say that people dont want critique what youre saying is that, if they receive critique they will throw a huge tantrum and will want the critic banned or something ridiculous.
its good that people can anonymously receive critique here, if theyre too immature to handle unwanted critique like an adult, then its good that theyre not posting here anyway.
>> No. 1375
>>1374
It depends on why they're saying it.

I know some people give the excuse that they're not trying to become a professional artist, therefore, they don't care if they have anatomical errors or so on in their work. They just draw commissions to fund their other passions, or because they have an uncommon kink they want to see featured more, or because commissions pay well for them, or whatever. It's not that valid of a reason, but I understand the mindset.

However, if someone's going to howl in response to "you could have done this better," those people have issues.
>> No. 1376
On websites where people feel safe giving honest, critical feedback, there are always going to be some dickwads who are too harsh or outright mean. That's the price we pay for honesty. The alternative is that you start policing what people say, make people feel uncomfortable expressing negative opinions, and then watch as all the good critics (and the good artists/authors that they attracted) leave.

What this chan really has a problem with is everybody losing their shit and derailing threads every time somebody is rude. Admins can and do, in time, take care of people who are consistently non-constructive shitheads. In the meantime, one or two jerks are not going to chase off mature, sensible artist as long as they are getting plenty of constructive comments from the rest of us. What WILL chase people off is if the entire group wastes all its time whining about people we don't like and never post productive comments. So please, for the love of of god, if you see someone being a dick, just leave them alone and write a better comment.

I do agree that TF2chan could use a slightly less tacky appearance. I know we're trying to maintain the chan aesthetic, but that nastyass pink background doesn't make anybody's art look good. And the raining dicks have overstayed their welcome.
>> No. 1377
>>1374
if they dont want critique and they receive it, they can just ignore it and not respond to it or thank the critic for their input and move on.

If only.
When I was posting my art here, I got a lot of "critique" simply saying "I don't like you're style"

If people could give actual critique I wouldn't mind it, but when it all comes down to "I don't like your style, change it", then it's not useful at all.

Then I got my first ban, because I was "immature" when I didn't listen to the critique, but what exactly are you supposed to do with people going "I don't like you're style" as your only guidelines.

If you could just ignore the critique everything would be good, but right now the feel of this place, IMO, is that if you don't listen to every little bit of crituque then you can just GTFO.

when you say that people dont want critique what youre saying is that, if they receive critique they will throw a huge tantrum and will want the critic banned or something ridiculous.

Um, no, that's not what I'm saying at all.
I'm saying people should be free to post their art, without feeling like other people are looking over their shoulders like a bunch of judgemental teachers.

You should be able to post your stuff without feeling you have to prove something to the other users/the mods.

But like I said, right now this place feels more like art college, and less like "this is a place where we can all share a common interest"
>> No. 1381
Quite a lot of good points brought up recently, and so much discussion that it'd take a lot of time to respond to things individually, so I'll just summarize by saying that we're taking notes. Keep it up, this is good stuff!

A mention I did want to make in particular though, AllShamNoWow made a thread to discuss giving the chan a makeover, at >>1378 . Please give your thoughts and ideas there if you have them, to make it a bit easier to know what you all want to see.
>> No. 1390
>>1377
agreed. I don't think it's policing or censoring to post a "list of critique to avoid, as it is unhelpful". stuff like:

"I do not like your style"
"I do not get off on this fetish, stop drawing it"
"Give them bigger breasts/a bigger dick"
"This pairing is stupid, stop shipping it"
"Redraw this commission that someone else paid you for, so it's more in line with what I want (also I will not pay you, and I will bug you until you do what I want)"
"I hate your art because you're friends with a person I hate"
"Stop finding [insert body type] sexy"
"Stop shipping gay [blah blah homophobic comments]"
"You cannot ever be a good artist because you are a woman/transgender/gay/not white"
>> No. 1391
>>1390
We'd need one for writing too. And maybe tack on something in there about being civil when giving criticism, because a lot of people out there think it's an excuse to be an asshole, and really, that doesn't help anyone.
>> No. 1394
>>1377
Then I got my first ban, because I was "immature" when I didn't listen to the critique, but what exactly are you supposed to do with people going "I don't like you're style" as your only guidelines.


I don't know what part of "you can just ignore it" you don't understand. Some critics are morons, and you don't have to listen them, but you also don't get to decide that they don't have the right to an opinion on this website.

IMO, is that if you don't listen to every little bit of crituque then you can just GTFO.
I've been on this chan for a longass time, and I can't remember a single instance of an artist or author being punished (either banned by the admins or lynched by the community) for politely ignoring critique. They get punished for being whiny, defensive little shits, trying to get the last word, and causing one bad critique to escalate into an ordeal. Again, ignore it. Completely. As in, don't say a word, and move on. The drama stops when you stop feeding it.

>>1390
I think that this website has enough bickering over critiques without having an official list of excuses for people to nitpick the shit out of each other. Because in my experience, that's what "critique guidelines" get used for. Meanwhile,the mature artist don't need them because they're perfectly capable of evaluating critique on their own, and disregarding that which is not up to snuff.



My recommendation is that admins continue to monitor abusive language, and continue to treat authors and artists like mature, reasonable adults who are perfectly capable of handling their own critics.
>> No. 1395
>>1394 again.

Incidentally, back when we had a workshop board, we had a pinned resource thread that was all about how to give and take critique effectively. It was pretty well-received. I don't think it hurts anything to have advice on critique available if people genuinely don't know and want to find out, or if they want to refresh their memory, in fact, it might actually be of some use to people. But I think there's a big difference between making learning resources available (by the way, admins, I miss our resource threads.) and making standards of critique part of the site's official policy.
Because in my experience, they don't help. Most people aren't going to read and remember the guidelines. Most people who are thoughtful enough to do so are already thoughtful enough to write considerate critiques on their own. Most mature artists and writers don't need critique guidelines because they can deal with (or ignore) bad critics on their own. I've been a hardcore artist for a long time, and I've seen a looooott of critique-related drama in my life, but I'm not exaggerating when I say only people I've ever seen benefit from standard critique guidelines are whiners looking for a way to validate their whining.
>> No. 1396
>>1394

I don't know what part of "I was ignoring the critique and got banned because of it" you don't understand, because that's the exact problem I was pointing out.
>> No. 1399
The reason I don't critique people:

I have critiqued some people who have unfortunately revealed themselves to be very emotionally unstable. I tell them they're anything except perfect, and they go on a tirade about how if you work so many hours on a project, it has to be perfect, and how could I be the only one in the world who ever cared about them, and now I've betrayed them, and I have to spend several hours talking them out of suicide...I just can't deal with it anymore.
>> No. 1403
>>1399
I feel you man.

Whenever I see critique it goes one of two ways.

1) Either the artist flips out and acts like a complete dick because they feel violated

2) The one giving critique flips out and acts like a complete dick because they feel like the artist isn't listening

Also, people in this place needs to learn the difference between an opinion and actual critique.

"I like this piece, but I think the left arm looks a bit funky" that's an opinion, something everyone is entitled to.

"You need to work on the left arm, it's too long in comparison to the rest of the body and it bends in an unnatural way" that's critique.
>> No. 1404
>>1403
I think you need to learn the difference between a critique and an opinion. Both of the examples you cited are critique, and only serve to illustrate the difference between specific critique and unspecific critique. Of course, being able to pinpoint exactly why an arm looks funky is always preferable, but just because somebody can't go into explain why a malproportioned arm looks funky does not mean that their observation is a subjective "opinion."

An ACTUAL opinion would be bitching because you don't like the author's choice of pairing or because you don't think an artist drew the Engineer's dick big enough. You know, things that are actually subjective. And actually I think TF2chan's community is about as good as it comes. There are always going to be egocentric idiots in every community, but TF2chan has (or had, when it was alive) a far, far higher percentage of rational critics than anywhere else I've seen. Just try getting anybody at deviantcrap or suefiction.net to give you an objective reason for why they like or dislike a piece. Most places you go, 95% of the comments are either incredibly vague "omg ur so talented" or incredibly subjective "omg sasukes so hot" bullshit.
>> No. 1412
>>1404
thanks for pointing this out. i think the reason why people are so afraid of receiving and giving critique is because they have a very vague idea of what it is and how it works. if theres not already, a masterpost of good way to give and receive critique would be very educational for everyone, no matter their drawing skill level
>> No. 1413
>>1412
Amen. A couple good suggestions for guidelines have already been mentioned, but I'd also add 'check timestamp' and 'note when you're uploading an old drawing' to the list. Sometimes I find an old drawing on my HD, and I upload it with the note, 'hey, neat, I just found this, I forgot I did this, it's from like, three years ago,' and I get a bunch of messages with, 'hey, uh, can I redline this, the arm looks disjointed and long, and that's not where the shoulder is supposed to be--'

Yes, I know that. I appreciate the redline, but please check my more recent art, Critperson. I haven't made that mistake in forever.
>> No. 1414
>>1295
>> No. 1416
>>1373

>What really annoys me about this, is that most of the people bitching about fumblr are on fumblr themselves. I don't get what this is about, but it should stop.

It's because Fumblr is fucking terrible and the best bloggers on Fumblr are the ones that fucking hate Fumblr. I want a TF2 community site where I don't have to put up with Fumblr shit. The migration of the fandom to that site heralded an era where a fucking fox otherkin was a prominent figure in the fandom for a few months and crowned herself the God of the fandom. That would have never happened here, and that is why I liked it here so much.

We're on Fumblr because that's where a lot of content creators are, because they aren't here anymore because this place is a ghost town.

Fucking Fumblr users. They ruined Fumblr.
>> No. 1417
>>1416
...I think maybe at this point we should get rid of that wordfilter.
>> No. 1418
I've said it before, but I'd prefer a forum over a chan. Forums don't lend themselves to spam as easily, and they're set up better for a conversation than, say, a blogging site.
>> No. 1419
>>1417

No, we need it to filter into something far more offensive.
>> No. 1420
jesus christ i came back here for nostalgia and i think i'm gonna stay

i left for tumblr and it ruined me

save me
>> No. 1421
>>1420

Tumblr confirmed for being objectively the worst.
>> No. 1422
>>1420
Kiyi woah what happened on tumbutts? I know there's almost routine drama but I didn't think it was anything life ruining!

>>1421
Oh also Cat (Bountry?) I saw some of your things and I liked them, good job.
>> No. 1423
>>1422
eh it's just the atmosphere that's fucked me up
and of course i can't actually leave the place so i come here to kind of even things out
>> No. 1424
>>1422

... What things are we talking about, I wonder?
>> No. 1426
>>1424

How there's like nobody in here but the child porn spammers?
>> No. 1427
>>1426

That's a different thing. I meant the drama things I am constantly embroiled in. Like, which ones?
>> No. 1434
I legit can't even remember why I left tbh. I think I might've had a falling out with the staff, but I can't for the life of me remember any details. Not surprising, considering I have a habit of blocking particularly upsetting events.

But whatever happened was like 4 years ago. I still like Tumblr (honestly, I think the tumblr hate has gotten as old as the people who only pop up to whine about drama), but I'd really like this site to get a second wind.


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