This looks really bad for you, Ferret - I gotta admit. You could always try to defend yourself, but it's hard to deny the evidence given.

on a side note, this'll sound horrible, but I really miss Katya now

>>4199

still better than flat-out gmod porn. I don't care.

>>4205

Hmm. I sort of agree. I mean it's not like she just traced a printscreen of gmod, a lot of work actually went into drawing these, and regardless the coloring is wonderful. And yes, it's WAY better than GMOD porn.

>>4206
why did I expect comments like this.

>>4206
A lot of time goes into cheating on tests, stealing things, tracing perfectly. Just vause hard work and time was spent on these, doesny make it right.

>>4199
Just my personal opinion, but I think you all are over reacting just a tad. Little known fact to some folks, but even Norman Rockwell traced for reference. The difference is that the reference he took were photographs that he took himself. If ferret takes her own reference in gmod, she isn't stealing ideas from other people so long as things are properly credited. (Like Rebbacus)
It was a different matter with the fella that traced pictures that weren't his. Not to mention too, Rockwell limited tracing as a technique to get difficult foreshortening, costumes, and other details resolved. He didn't use it as a crutch, just as a tool to make his posing and composition believeable.
Human anatomy practice, allday erryday.

>>4210
the amount of white knighting here is unbelievable.

There is a difference between tracing something for the purpose of learning it/getting it right and just taking a screenshot in GMOD (of other people's 3d models), slapping it onto a porn picture(that you didn't photograph), and passing it off as if you drew it. Especially if you are offering COMMISSIONS to other people. There is no way that is acceptable.
Using tracing for the process of learning or getting something difficult right is just fine, but I think we all know that's not what happened here. This person traced photos and screenshots together to make "quality" art so they could receive cash and asspats.
TF2chan used to hold their fanart section to a really high standard, and now people are OK with completely TRACED artwork? Even defending it? This is just straight-up sad.

>>4199

I'm having a rough time following this. If Ferretsoda traces poses that were self-made in GMOD, there's no need to blow the Hell up as if they're copying someone else's work.

And comparing OP's style to another artist...what exactly are you trying to prove? That the style is different? We get it, but who the fuck cares?

And telling people not to buy commissions just reeks of asshurt. I happen to like Ferretsoda's style, and if I could, I'd commission her. I don't care if she uses GMOD as a reference.

>>4212
the heads are directly traced from gmod and the bodies are directly traced from porn images and the color is pretty much two-value or eye-droppered in, in the case of the spy pic. The pic from katya's work was used to illustrate the way someone who understands muscle structure would color an arm vs the way someone who traces would color an arm. There is absolutely no artistic integrity in any of this work what's not to get??

let me put it this way: You buy a sculpture from who you think is a legit artist. Instead of ACTUALLY carving the sculpture, they decide to cut the limbs and body from other statues, put them together and make a mold, and then cast it, and sell it to you-- the buying customer.

That's essentially what's happening here. If you want to give your money to someone like that go for it but you're just getting ripped off.

>>4213

I'm not going to argue with you further, because I just remembered how pointless it is to argue with people over an anonymous image board.

I'm not an artist, but I must say a lot of things in Ferretsoda's pictures look wrong. I've hesitated to say so before but tracing would explain things.

The way the faces are made in such detail while the rest of the bodies aren't really stand out for me. Spy's head looks like it was just stickered on someone else's body. The mask doesn't even fit right with the neck. Who knows what Pyro is supposed to look like, but he has those weird sausage legs for sure. Sniper's pic just looks awkward with the angle of the body and the odd positions of the legs. Again, thick and ill-defined 'sausage' thighs. And with Medic the lack of consistency between his face and the rest of his body is the most glaring. The face looks good, but the body came from something else. Isn't the lack of consistency in their art a big 'tell' that someone traces?

Upon hearing the evidence that Ferretsoda has been tracing, I am honestly not surprised.

How dare you accuse someone of tracing as if it were a bad thing DONT YOU KNOW ITS OKAY TO TRACE AND PARADE IT AROUND AS YOUR OWN WORK

Kilo, where are you? We need you to lay down the law in here, it's getting out of hand. If I could, I'd report this entire thread, but I don't know if it's possible.

>>4218

Kilo is not a mod anymore.

As far as I can tell, no one has provided any proof of tracing, merely evidence that could point towards it. I'm going to allow Ferretsoda to offer an explanation for all this before I take any action.

Unless any of you can offer any concrete proof of tracing (like photographs that were traced that line up perfectly, for example), then I don't think I can do anything. Because all I see here is just a lot of just talking. The evidence provided isn't strong enough.

Anything else?

>>4220
time to explain for people who are just white knighting but don't actually know stuff about art

someone who had even a BASIC idea of what they were drawing... it would look more like this.
Even if they fucking sucked at coloring, they would shade the inner forms or at least OUTLINE them with lines. Look at artists like Minttu, kaz, lintu, prawnsy, katya, deers etc. You're going to see that none of those people have "sausage legs" and their inner forms are defined. It's because they don't trace.

>>4220
if you were to use reference or quote something in writing, you would have to say, "Hey i referenced so and so" in a footnote or something

guess what ferretsoda didn't do

hence why they didn't use reference, they essentially plagiarized someone's photo

use some logic sometime, it's nice

how about a nice fart on your dick


my brother whipped this up in gmod for me in about one minute tops. Apart for some minutely changed details this is a straight up trace

>>4223

uhm this is just... i don't know where to begin. Just because someone can look at the outline of a reference and draw that, then add their own colors, doesn't mean it was traced. ferretsoda OBVIOUSLY isn't going for a photorealistic picture perfect painting, is she? It resembles the game in A LOT of ways, especially the cartoony, unrealistic feel.

it seems to me like you are accusing her of tracing because... she didn't color the muscles in correctly?

What about the rest of her work? hmm? That head is definitely traced, and i'm not sure about the body, but her earlier works especially don't seem like tracings to me. It just looks like she's gradually getting better at drawing to me.

>>4225
if ferretsoda didn't directly trace the body, then they "eyed" it. any person with a pencil and some patience can eye a drawing, and it's really frowned upon among artists. eyeing is no better than tracing.

>>4224

Rude. But you've made your point.

Thread will be locked and subjected to administrator review.

Quotes pulled from the discussion we had over this issue.

The current consensus is that although "ferret's artwork thus far has been lacking any serious muscle structure and has been a sausage-fest", "[t]here is not enough work from her or enough evidence to really prove if she's a kiddie-grade tracer", mainly because "[t]here is only the head confirmed, and pure speculation on the rest." "Also, if they trace their own GMod work[, w]ho cares?" "The ruckus would be more valid if the artist was tracing over someone else's work."


The final decision, compiled:
The users should be encouraging the artist to draw heads without tracing, because tracing heads is hindering his/her own work and not really bringing out what they can bring to the table. It's more like the artist is handing out a half-assed piece of work, and that is what they should be mad about, not the tracing itself. We would like to add a recommendation that Ferretsoda go to /workshop/ in order to improve, instead of staying in /afanart/.

The thread will be unlocked in order to allow ferret to make a decision on whether they'd like this moved to /workshop/ or not, as well as continue to use the thread. While the anon posting the accusations does have some merit, please keep the rudeness to a minimum if they or anyone else decides to continue the tracing debate.

>>4229
are you condoning tracing? are you saying it doesn't matter if they trace, even if it's just the heads?

if i took a paragraph directly out of a book and changed the names to fit in a tf2 fanfiction and slap my name it and say, "hey i wrote this!" then offer my so-called writing for commissions, would you support me? would you support my stealing of someone else's work for my own profit?

it doesn't matter how much or how little is traced or copied, it's still tracing and still copying. both of those are terrible and you're terrible for only giving ferretsoda a slap on the wrist.

>>4230
If you took a paragraph directly out of a book and changed the names to fit in a tf2 fanfiction, I would do the same thing I'm doing here, which is not support either Ferretsoda by buying commissions or praising it, or your hypothetical by buying your writing or critiquing it. I would expect that others would do the same, and neither ferret nor hypothetical you would actually make any profit because people would know of the issue, as well as that neither of you would improve because you're not making an effort to, so why should we help? Tracing from Gmod that the person posed themselves is not a big deal in our opinion, because it is not directly copying artwork made by other people, and it is only holding back the artist who is doing it, preventing them from improving, as well as decreasing what little amount of people may still have been interested in commissions from them.

Then again, maybe there's some desperate person out there wanting to buy a commission at any cost, regardless of whether the artist traces or not. Who are we to tell them that they can't do that? Let the commissioners determine what artists they feel are worth buying from, I say. At this point, most likely not ferretsoda.

>>4231
On a side note, if ferret does trace bodies and does not credit the original source in some way, show me some proof of that and I will ban them myself. Being a thief is far worse than having a shady workflow that won't lead to improvement.

I don't care if she uses reference, a lot of people do! I am still willing to commission her. If you look on Sparkledog Central there are a lot of people who use Gmod or SFM to make they're own art, do they get flamed for copyright? No, they don't. What I'm trying to say is, this thread has turned into a war. As far as I know, This is not a website for blasting people without legit evidence. Besides, I really look forward to more art from FerretSoda, even if she does use reference, and this is not helping her one bit.

>>4233
This "war" as you call it, is not a war. It is a discussion that has relevance to whether or not Ferretsoda is two things: An art thief, or an artist who doesn't belong in /afanart/ for a number of reasons.
This is not a debate over copyright, and there is SOME legitimate evidence against Ferret. Contrary to your opinion, this is either helpful to Ferret because they will realize their issues, and work to correct them, or it is not helpful because they are an art thief who does not belong on this site in the first place.
Take your whiteknighting elsewhere, preferably back to Sparkledog Central where you appear to reside, or revise your way of thinking such that you can become a more constructive poster on our boards.

>make they're own
You meant "make their own".

The main issue here isn't art theft.

It's tracing.

Let's not lose site of that here, shall we?

>>4235
The main issue here isn't art theft nor tracing. It's the fact the artist is hindering their abilities and shooting themselves in the foot, preventing them from improving.

>>4232
Problem is with all the porn images out there it's really hard to find the one that ferretsoda chose to trace! And I'm saying TRACE, because it is so fucking obvious in every single way that this person is a tracer. Look at the picture of spy again. The hand looks like a doctor's glove inflated and blown up like a balloon. Just sit there and fucking imagine drawing like that if you WEREN'T tracing... anybody who can draw a perfect outline of a hand but can't tell you where the KNUCKLES go is a tracer! I don't know how to make this any more obvious. Maybe it's because I actually draw figures every day for the past 6 years?? And know that this is physically not possible unless you're tracing?

The reason I am so angry and so adamant about this is because tracing is an insult to every other artist out there. It's an insult to new artists who are trying and struggling and failing to get their anatomy right. Every buck you give to this person is an insult to artists who have worked their WHOLE LIFE to learn how to draw, learn how to color, learn the names of every fucking muscle just to get won over by someone who traced a picture. Because you trace, ferretsoda, you are exempt from failure as an artist, and you are fucking over every other artist who has tripped and fallen trying to legitimately get something right.
Except for those of us who can see right through you. I just see a coward who's afraid of making mistakes.

i think the real issue here is Ferretsoda draws some pretty hot porn regardless of whether or not it is muscularly/anatomically correct or a tracing.


THIS IS PORN YOU GUYS WHAT THE HELL? Enjoy it or don't. I certainly do.

gosh ok i am flattered people miss me and think my anatomy is great, but i'm a little uncomfortable with my stuff basically being used against someone... no matter what the verdict here is.

in my opinion, i don't really know if this is traced stuff or not, but what i can see is from the coloring that you, ferret, are using references heavily and in a way that i don't think is really helping you at all.

i'm mostly looking at the spy drawing right now, and it seems to me that the shading, though using nice colors, doesn't really match up at all with the lineart, and doesn't actually give any information about the muscles and bones and stuff, it just looks like it was referenced from a photograph. you made the same color shapes, but without actually knowing what those shapes represent. i hope that makes sense? `the shapes look like they are supposed to be muscles and bones, but placed in a way that doesn't show any reasonable knowledge of anatomy.

so my advice that was never asked for, it might be useful to spend some time in the workshop. i'd love to see more sketches and the like from you, ferret, and what you do to take a picture from start to finish. some concept thumbnails, ideas, loose sketches, gesture drawings, stuff like that.

i think the lock was a good idea to keep this thread from becoming even more of a shitstorm than what is already brewing. maybe it's time for ferretsoda to make a decision now?

>>4239
>>4239
sorry about using your work
I was just trying to use it as an example of someone who understands the muscles of the arm. I wasn't trying to say "this person should be drawing like katya" but everyone seems to be taking it that way. I really should have found 2 or 3 examples but I was tired and whipped that thing up fast.

>>4238
So, what, porn should be held at a lower standard just because it's porn? With that sort of logic, it sounds like you'd enjoy 50 Shades of Grey. This is TF2Chan and we've never held things at a lower standard just because it's "omg so hawt". If anything, art here comes under even more scrutiny.

With that said, I do find it a little unnerving how fast and how viciously people turned on FerretSoda because of this, but it's still understandable. There's no overlooking the element of betrayed trust here - a lot of people feel let down because this was an artist we really liked and finding out she traces instead of just referencing (probably) is likened to a slap in the face.

Not just that, but there's also the shame of actually being fond of something one would find so beneath our standards (Sparkledog Central, anyone?). I have a feeling that a lot of people feel embarrassed that they were "tricked", and express their rage outwardly to shield themselves from the disappointment. Of course, some people just go in the opposite direction, which results in the whiteknighting seen, as well. (This isn't even going into the frustration of "legit" artists who hate to see someone else "cheat" and be met with applause when they've busted their chops for much less.)

All of this just makes this the perfect cesspool of rage, butthurt, and flamewars aplenty. I'm not looking to tell the mods how to do their jobs, but I doubt things could get better from here. Maybe it'd be best to lock this thread and have FerretSoda make her appeals through /inception/ so this whole conflict doesn't have to be so... public? (Not many people frequent /inception/, so.. idk)

I'm just spitballing here, again. Cannot stress enough how much I am NOT telling the mods how to do their jobs.

I, personally, am disappointed. I've never liked tracing, despite my own meager art capabilities, but I have to admit, I was fooled by the apparent hoax pulled here. I don't have any ill will against Ferret, but I do think some honesty would serve them best here. These sorts of disputes tend to end up burning you no matter how you plead.

>>4241
For Ferretsoda's individual case, it is fine for here. for a revision/clarification of rules,that would be /inception/ because it effects the whole site.
Secret shame admission time:I used to trace gmod stuff I made. While the medic face is definitely traced, the other parts may be referenced from something like pose maniacs or whichever(like having a model, or, idk,a reference book avid artists tend to use for body positioning?)
When you directly trace something like a photo or a gmod pic you made, there are little jagged bits that are there that,unless you really know what they do(which if you did you wouldn't be tracing anyway!),would look weird.I do not see it on these.
Like Katya said, the general shape is there but the shading shows the lack of knowing where the muscles are to shade it properly. That's the next step. Looks more eyeballed then traced.
Sausage-legs could be referring to the style in TF2 itself from what one knows in memory as well,Since quite a few TF2 characters don't have IRL-like bodies to begin with.

As for what Norman Rockwell did, I'm gonna ask my Cousin her thoughts on that.(Columbia Graduate, she knows her art stuff.)but from what I can tell Rockwell probably used the photos to set up the general proportions of the scene and worked from there. He knew enough about anatomy,drawing hair,clothes folds,etc, were he could change things without them looking weird. Also notice Rockwell had more then one person in the scene, probably to get the people the right size so you didn't have Giganto Baby sitting on the lap of a tiny mom.Examples:
http://pdnphotooftheday.com/2009/12/2778

>>4244
refer to this post

>>4059
>Anyway. I'm also pondering whether or not to do commissions... any interest?

So much structure, so many expectations, and so much passion in a message board that has whittled itself down to, on average, one or two updates per fanart and fan fiction section per day.

Through what are sometimes unwanted and unnecessarily cruel critiques messaged as good intentions towards the artist or writer, through creating a culture of negativity by taking away a common method of quickly expressing positive emotions where facial expressions and vocal inflections are not in play, you have been reduced to posing sanctions against an individual who last bothered to post two weeks ago.

What do you as a community provide for him/her? Why would he/she possibly want to come back and respond to your accusations? You are a twisted community. You may look down on Tumblr for the sometimes juvenile behavior of its members. However, Tumblr has one thing that I admire -- it is a culture of positivity where there is a place for amateurs and inexperienced artists who have never claimed to be particularly talented, but want an outlet for the passion they feel so strongly towards their fandom of choice.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>>4248
>it is a culture of positivity

thats the most polite way i've heard "echo-chamber hugbox circlejerk" put

how are we meant to be positive about someone tracing all their work? all they're doing is holding themselves back. they're learning nothing

>>4249
I agree. Do you want to improve or do you want mindless praise? That is always the point of contention.

>>4248

I... compleatly agree.



Now I remember why I left this website in the first place.

You guys are seriously, WAY too fucking stick-in-ass acting about everything. I know tracing isn't exactly a good thing, but I can't help but to feel bad for Ferret. I am crushed by this whole tracing thing, but I still love her art... Maybe I'm too much of a moralfag for my own good...

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>>4251

I mean, God damn it. What is actually wrong with you? There is no moral high ground in defending tracing. I look up to the Chan's strict standards because it's one of the few places that actually has standards. You're really acting like you're somehow in the right for defending poor, helpless ferretsoda? For tracing?

It should be doubly hurtful that someone traced and tricked everyone into thinking they were an artist. I expect this kind of whiteknighting from Sparkledog Central, but here? Fucking here? What if we had a sudden influx of tracers? Would it be defensible?

Hell, let's get some more stolen stories while we're at it. Fuck creativity and learning, everything should be recolors, traces, and stories with names changed. We can rename the site devianttf2art and we can have a bunch of 13 year olds throw around emotes and call Scout kawaii.

Fuck standards. Let's lower our standards. Tracing is A-OK if it looks good! Stolen stories aren't stolen if the original isn't from here!

I'm just disgusted. I really am. I kind of liked ferretsoda's work, but I always knew something was off from it. Seeing that it was, in fact, traced confirms that suspicion. Defending tracing is inexcusable, and outright insulting to artists to boot. Why even try if someone who traces will be defended and whiteknighted for? What's the point in pouring effort into your work if someone can lazily trace over pictures and be loved just as much?

That is just...I wanted to keep quiet, but hearing that as an excuse makes me so goddamn angry. You feel bad that someone was caught fucking stealing and lying about their work? Boo fucking hoo.

>>4252
I didn't say she was poor, or helpless. But okay, whatever makes you feel better.

I didn't mean that tracing was acceptable, because it's not, it's for little kids who don't know how to draw and think that everyone will give them kudos for work they didn't even do, but I feel as if you are being very harsh towards Ferret. I understand that it fucking SUCKS to have people around who don't do jack-shit and then someone like you, who works their ass off and be at the same level as the tracer. I don't think I was quite clear enough in my last post, because I sure as hell didn't mean it that way.
On another note, we don't know for sure that the bodies are traced, or any of her other work. Does her earlier work really look traced? (I'm talking about the other thread of hers.) No, it doesn't. I'm just saying it could've been much worse.

>>4253
translation: yeah ferret traces but you guys are being mean to them :'(( why r u so mean?? :'-(

Also the bodies ARE traced I've given mounds and mounds of artistic evidence as to why, the only counter arguments are coming from people who don't know what they're talking about or are just whiteknighting. Also Ferretsoda hasn't answered this thread in ages. I doubt they're ever coming back now that everyone knows """"THE TRUTH""""

>>4254
Holy shit. I said you were right you fucking ass. Oh, sorry. Didn't know that I had to despise someone to the core because someone traced. Disappointed, yes. Want Ferret to die, no.

Also, no emotes you ass.

Well, i'm not an artist, so its not like I would actually know, but why the hell does it matter if fsoda traces?
Its obviously indirectly insulting other artists somehow. But why does such a big deal have to be made about it? I was able to enjoy it not knowing fsoda was tracing, and I would still enjoy it now that I know.

fsoda may have not had the ability to produce content like the rest of you artists do, but it was still just as enjoyable nontheless.
And I'm not saying we should have just blindly appreciated everything that was made, i agree that it was dirty for fsoda to trace and not say anything about it, but instead of having a fit because it "insults other artists" (somehow in some way that isn't even visible to most of us), we could just establish that this work is a Traced G-mod model. People are still going to get off to it anyway. fsoda just needs to clarify its a g-mod model. From there its basically just g-mod porn, but put through photoshop(extensively).
So stop whining you ninnies. jesus christ.

Get a bit worked up guys. Most of her other art doesn't look traced. At least the snipers don't, you can kinda tell her style. Its not like she's a shitty artist without tracing.

Sure tracing is bad. But, the Only ones I see worth getting upset is the Medic, Pyro and Spy on this thread. Your panties are in a ruffle.

>>4254
>>4255
Both of you, cut the childish attacks out and stop pretending the other person was speaking entirely in hyperbole. You are each allowed to your own side in any discussion on this site, but by no means are you to devolve further.

>>4256
It matters because we strive to be a site that is about improvement first, not the porn. If you come here as an artist looking just to post porn and not to improve your skills, you're here for entirely the wrong reasons and should probably take yourself elsewhere. That said, I entirely agree on your point that people who post work that isn't entirely their own should note it thusly, be it gmod, another person's work (see Jasonafex's hyper Pyro edit that caused a fuss while back), or some other method. Not doing so should be, at least in my opinion, grounds for a ban and file deletion.

>>4257
>Most of her other art doesn't look traced.
The fact that Ferretsoda has been proven a tracer at all throws doubt upon all of her work thus far, regardless of whether or not it "doesn't look traced". "Style" also does not exclude her from suspicion, it could simply mean she takes references from the same source every time, for example.


Lastly, because quite a few people have mentioned being sick and tired of this, as well as >>4254 having a point in that Ferretsoda should have returned by now, I'm locking this thread and it will (hopefully) stay locked until Ferretsoda contacts the administration and sorts things out. You can stop bitching on tumblr now.