Working a little more detail in.

I don't think Sniper's very good at being comforting, but I see him as the sort who, if he happens to be there and notices a teammate is brooding, will at least offer a quiet sort of 'hey, we're all in this together, right?' thing, if only because being around people who are brooding bothers him.

I never thought I'd draw a non-'shippy picture of them, either, but since I really only 'ship the RED Sniper with the BLU Spy, when I draw them non-crossfaction, it just turned out like, awkwardly bros.

Plus, I like the idea that the RED Spy really is besotted with his lady-love...

Wow, I ramble a lot every time I post a tiny bit of artistic progress...

Spy's a bit thin at the waist and neck, but I like how Sniper looks. I'm looking forward to seeing further progress on this.

Blocked in flat colour so that when I use a brush with texture, it won't be white/blue through. Then shadows and highlights, and wood grain...

>>2269
Thanks! I was a lot happier with Sniper than with Spy and I couldn't figure out what was bugging me-- I'll try thickening him out a little and see if I can't strike a better balance.

Got depth and texture added after widening Spy's waist and neck a little. Saved this version before adding any shadow to Spy's suit, though, so there's still room to fix. If anyone else spots a change that needs to be made I can do it when I go in to fix the suit.

Your coloring looks a bit like patchwork to me. Try to keep it consistent - For example, the smudges you drew Spy's five o' clock shadow in look cheap compared to the rest of the colors that are clear and sharp. Experiment more and see how you can achieve the same effect without taking away from the picture.

>>2289
Thank you!

The colouring has been the hardest part for me transitioning from traditional media to doing digital art, and I'm still very much in the experimental phase with some of the brushes and opacity and layers... and sometimes I can tell something's not quite right but I'm not sure where I need to fix things.

>>2312
Oh, that's quite alright! I myself am still learning the ropes of digital coloring. If you tell me which program you use, I can give you a couple of tutorials if you want.

>>2317
Photoshop Elements 8-- it came with the tablet and it's taken a little getting used to... I feel like this is a bit better, I used a smoother brush at half opacity... Plus, I got the shadow on his suit. Not sure if I'm happy where it is or if it needs more...

Anyway, you've been a lot of help!

(second attempt, had to re-size file)

Too much Leonard Cohen. Every time I listen to [the song in question] I think of either them or Heavy and Medic, though.

So, basically, I don't know what's wrong with me. But whatever it is, it ends in dancing.

>>2398
I think their ears might be a bit too high up, the top of the ear should line up with the top of your eye, and the bottom of your ear should line up with the bottom of your nose. Also, I think their arms might be just a bit too long.

>>2399
Thanks! Woo, glad the first thing I did on getting back to my computer was to check for concrit instead of to work on the next layers.

Okay, shortened some arms (foreshortening is not my strong suit, on Sniper's right arm...), lowered some ears.

Added flat colour, but haven't yet tidied it up or added a layer of shadow, highlight, or details like stubble, sunburn, and pinstriping.

>>2402

The legs might be too long. In general, the halfway point of the average human body is the crotch.

Grah, rage sounds. Had problem with Waltz, taking a break from it.

Here's a rough thing, basically me playing around with pastel brushes. Don't think I'll fix it, because it's not that great...

So, due to me being careless more than anything else, I lost several hours of work that I did on the waltz pic (actually, going by Sniper's leg, I'd say they were doing the Quick Step...?).

I had to start almost completely from the top, and there are a few things I liked better the first time I worked on them, and a few other things I like better this time around.

Still a couple details to fill in, but here's most of the progress.

Final product, I think. Added the rest of the shadows, finished all the layers of skin that go into that sun-baked Sniper, added some body hair.

Working on two arty things at the mo, wondering which to focus on first. Okay, the first saved JPEG of the tentaspy pic I have, the lines get kind of lost in the background...

... and this currently-rather-pink naked Heavy and Medic.

So anyway, these are both in their earliest of stages. If anyone has a preference between seeing more tentacles or more naked Heavy and Medic, let me know.

And then when I have visible line art of one or the other up, I shall be open to redlining/general critique. For now I just want to know where to pour my energy.

(went ahead and put my email up there for the first time as well)

I've seen plenty of tentaspy lately, but it's been a while since I've seen some nekkid Medic and Heavy. I would like to point out, however, that the anatomy on your tentaspy sketch looks much better than the anatomy on the other sketch. While the subject matter is better in the second picture, I would rework that one a bit. As far as specific advice, I'm not sure what to say, though.

>>2460
Thanks! I fixed a couple things since I last saved a JPG copy, and I'll work a little more on Heavy and Medic and see if I can't iron out any more issues. (And I guess once I have a solid outline instead of just a sketchy mess of red, it'll be open to redlining, should there continue to be problem anatomy... but for right now a general note is helpful enough, since I'm still early in on it)

Majorly redid some lines. Medic's head in particular still looks gigantic, I'm going to need to take yet another crack at fixing that...

Background now feels less pink and more light red, though, so that's (arguably) a plus.

Feel happy with the bulk of Heavy's... well, bulk. I kind of want to rub his tummy, except instead of getting good luck, you'd get shot... I feel like his head's also bigger than it should be, but it doesn't look as awfully out-of-scale as Medic's. I guess mostly I'm afraid of making things worse instead of better when I redo this stuff.

I've been thinking it looks odd where medic's legs attach to his body, and I've decided it's mostly because the lower part of his torso is too short.
I went ahead and found a reference picture and made this. On the reference picture, the space between his collar bones and armpits (space 1) is roughly the same as the space between his armpits and the bottom of his pecs (space 2.) Yours is close, space 1 is just a bit too long.
In the photo, the space between his chest and belly button (space 3) is roughly the same length as the space between his belly button and crotch (space 4.) On yours, space 4 is too short.
Anyway, downsizing their heads will help, and you're doing well so far, keep it up.

>>2464
Thank you so much! This is going to be exceptionally helpful. Couldn't figure out what, aside from head size, was bugging me about him.

Did some work fixing Medic. He still doesn't feel quite right, but still, better. I'll see what else I can do to get him in better proportions...

Haven't yet added depth, shadow, varied tones to the skin, stubble, etc., but here's the clean flat-colour layer version.

Hmm... Medic still seems a little out-of-proportion to me. I may have to accept that this time, he won't come out perfect and that I'll have to draw a great many crap Medics before I finally earn my wings, but it does rankle a bit... not sure what to do with him at this point exactly...

Heavy I feel comparatively good about still. I need to re-do some of his body hair, though, that I didn't 'ink' over.

Shading didn't do Medic many favors...

Heavy I'm liking pretty well.

Need to go back in and add some old scars, deeper shading in Medic's cupped hand.

The dicks, they are indeed everywhere.

(and Medic's not wearing his glasses to avoid steaming them up whilst bathing, I just... didn't draw a bath/background)

Showing improvement. I would recommend slightly lowering Heavy's right elbow, as it looks too high on his arm, and the angle of Medic's nose is a bit too downward-facing. There aren't any glaringly obvious things for me to point out, so my advice at this point is just a whole lot of nit-picking. I don't know whether you want to invest in fixing every tiny detail or not. I'm no expert anyway.

Hm... at this point I probably won't go back to it, but now I totally see it and will at least definitely be paying more attention to that stuff next time 'round.

For now, here's this, the whole no-hair-no-scars-no-hats-no-accessories classes exercise. Went ahead and did a ninth featureless head for Pyro, since I'm going to go over these and turn everyone from sketches into something more themselves.

But, hoping they're properly distinguishable.

DICKS EVERYWHERE

>>2495
Fuck, site deleted my comment. But anyway the bodies look kind of squat and squashed compared to the heads so it looks overly cartoony. Heavy's elbow should be lower and the elbow crease more indented so it looks like he can bend his arm. Also the heads could use more jaw and the noses ought to be smaller vertically.

>>2496
Thanks! If I get back to this one, your redline will be really helpful.

Actually, now I'm thinking about redoing it with an actual background... On the one hand, I really want to for the sake of improving the overall picture, on the other hand... ugh, backgrounds, they've always been the bane of my existence...

Reworked figures a bit, haven't cleaned up edges or done the background yet.

>>2504
And crap in a hat, I probably won't.

Pro Tip: When shutting things down fast so your mother doesn't see you've been drawing hairy naked men, always make sure you saved your progress. Le sigh.

(Captcha says YHWH?, to which I nearly shouted 'Or NO WAY?!?)

Starting from the 'draw everyone as blanks' meme thing from a while back, started in adding the details back.

>>2564
You seem to have a lot of trouble with facial construction and proportioning. In the featureless faces picture, it was honestly VERY hard to tell who was who (except Heavy, whose face is exaggerated that it looks like a lump of dough). A lot of the heads you draw don't have enough space for a brain, and are mostly just a very long face attached to a sphere.

The face is a three dimensional object, and can be represented as a series of planes and shapes (see picture, sorry it's kind of small, I can give you a link to a larger version if you want). On each individual person, the shapes are slightly different and arrange themselves at different angles, which gives every individual unique features. If you understand these planes and construction, then you can give your drawing distinct features.

The faces you've drawn in these pictures are very flat. They don't stick out from the face at proper angles, and simply look they're drawn on a flat plane, instead of actually part of the face (if that makes any sense). I STRONGLY advice taking a break and looking at portraits of real people and drawing those to get a better sense of how faces are put together in general. I like TF2's art style just as much as the next guy, and looking at in-game character models are fine for reference when you're actually drawing the characters, but are a poor choice for a beginner to study because the art style is exaggerated and cartoony. Once you figure out how to construct a face, then you can abstract and exaggerate it properly (this goes for pretty much everything in art actually).

Sorry if this all seems harsh, but I don't know how to word it otherwise without seeming vague.

>>2571

Thanks! (I'd rather have useful criticism that 'might sound harsh' than useless criticism that needlessly tries to coddle my feelings-- wouldn't be here if I didn't)

Urgh, haven't been able to work on anything digital for a couple days. But, did some sketching (and of course I can't scan either...) and tried to pay attention to structure and depth, just to get some practice in.

Finally got some of my pencil and pen-and-ink stuff scanned in (it takes so many steps because my laptop will not talk to the printer-- I have to wait until nobody's around to ask me what I've been drawing so I can scan things onto my mom's netbook and send them to myself... but until I can do digital art again, that process is all I've got)

Recent Spy/Sniper sketch. Compared to older stuff, I can definitely see how I've improved over the past couple years, so that's encouraging. Still need to keep studying and practicing, but it is definitely heartening to compare to some of my super-cringeworthy old art and say 'I'm learning'.

Done in a pocket-sized art notebook that I got at the Orange County Museum of Art gift shop, with a mechanical pencil, in... I don't know, several minutes. Not super-fast, but it's small so it's not like it was a long time, either.

I've probably talked about it way more than enough.

Not really a straight-up illustration, just a somewhat silly thing with doves.

Somewhere a line didn't get inked...

Anyway, pencil sketch, half a page in my large sketchbook, then inked with micron pens, 3 for most of the outlining, .05 for the fine details, and a few places I used a 1 for lines between the two.

When I can edit in photoshop again, I might add colour and give it a digital trace, 'cause there are a lot of things I really do like about it, and once I've got it in 'shop, it'll be easier to edit the things I don't like.

Open to crit, of course.

Squishy little Tentaspy looking for friends. Was a sketch in the corner of a large page of crap. Figured I'd dump him here as long as I had him.

Did some sketches. On the one hand, I find I much prefer my ability to vary line weights when I'm using traditional media, on the other hand, I've kind of been spoiled by the ability to easily edit things I never could have edited using just trad. media... so if a line is wrong, I'm screwed once I've used real ink.

But that top Sniper is a real improvement over my early work at least...

Anyway, this is basically a sketchdump, and there's nothing I can really do at the moment with concrit, but I am always happy to hear general notes that I can apply to future work.

Do I 'ship this? Sure enough and yes indeed I do.

And I think this is the last of my sketchdumping for the night.

I don't know what's wrong with me, but I've learned to roll with it.

>>2649
I strongly approve.

>>2657
Thanks muchly! World needs more Pyro/Engie love... Also, this might be the best I've done Engie...

Then I went and added shading and hatching and stuff, but haven't gone through the laborious scanner process... argh, scanner, why you gots ta suck so hard?

Got some more scanning done. Ignore the off-topic half of the page.

Dumping these here-- you can redline whatever you want, though it may be a while before I can do any digital editing of my pen-and-ink stuff. But I got to scan things, which I can't always make work, so, art.

More sketchpage dumping. Again, totally open to any redlining of my derpy currently-un-editable stuff, since I'd like to edit at least some of it in the future when I'm able. Some of it is awful, but I like to hope some of it is redeemable.

I... I don't even know. When I started sketching it, it struck me as hilarious.

On one side, a gen Heavy, me practicing working on profiles, my weakest angle. But, only after doing some serious ref studying. Not quite right in a couple places, but might still be my best work as far as profiles go...

And then on the other side, a completely not at all gen Geisha!drag Medic having some sexy blowjob times.

Needs cleaning up. Obi will have class symbol when the Geisha pic is finished-- right now it's just barely suggested at.

Redlines welcome, there are a couple awkward places. Otherwise I'll just try my best to fix them.

Very preliminary work for a couple things. So far, almost wholly skeletal.

A while back this was a request that I liked, but it has taken me ages just to get a rough sketch...

I hope to get some time to work on this because I'd like to fill an art request with something that's actually nice.

Great improvement Annethecatdetective. I’ve just been browsing through and I’m pretty impressed with how you’re doing in anatomy

>>2718
Thanks! I've been getting a ton of really great advice over in the genderbend board of late, too...

(And then instead of working on the piece I had going, I sketched something else out. Attention span? Never had one. Okay, first, I need to work on Heavy/Medic, then I can work on fixing up Sniper/Spy.)

Since I finished the H/M (super late) request piece, did a little more work on this Sniper/Spy

Have yet to finish the shading, though I brushed in some texture here and there, and have yet to add pinstripes. And some lines feel really... just, bad. Large part of the problem being, I think, that I started with too small of a 'canvas', so there was only so much that could be done.

Next time I start something, I'm going to give myself a lot more space...

(I think all the brushes used so far are Obsidian Dawn's, but I could be wrong... the clouds for sure, though.)

>>2748
What is going on with the perspective in this picture? You drew Sniper as if we were looking down on him from above, and Spy as if we were looking at him straight on. I have no idea what the fuck they're standing on, or how they're even standing (both look like they're about to fall over.
And what is going on in this picture? Are they having a conversation? About to make out? Trading handjobs? Spy's facial expression just makes him look like he's asleep, and the awkward poses makes them look like two awkwardly placed mannequins instead of two people interacting with one another.
The poses are awkward, but Spy in particular needs work. He looks like he's leaning over for some reason, while holding something invisible (try drawing him with a relaxed hand), and his limbs don't even look attached to his body. Here's a picture of a guy in a suit, look at how his shoulders and legs look while wearing it (he has a thinner build as well, though not as exaggerated as the TF2 artstyle).

>>2750
A big part of the problem was how small the sketch I started from is, which wound up giving me very little room to edit.

As for the rest, thanks for the concrit/reference. It's looking more and more like I can't really fix this one, but I can at least use what you gave me working on future things.

Original sketch was giving me so much trouble trying to make it into something PS-editable that I scrapped it and started over on a somewhat bigger photoshop canvas. Came out not quite like the original sketch, but that's not really a bad thing.

Still a little awkward in a couple places. Obviously I haven't done heavy fixing on the figures yet, but I definitely need to find a way to make Spy's legs not... bad.

A couple other things wrong with it at this stage, and redlines are of course welcome. At least I feel more like this time around I actually have room to fix the issues, once I know what it is I need to do to address them.

And of course now you all see why I never draw backgrounds, because the perspective is STILL wonky. Need to go in and fix that upper roof so that it matches the dimensions of the deck a little better.

Need to fix Sniper's arm, it is not right.

Anyway, it's five thirty, so I'm going to stop for now, but now at least I have something I can come back to and fix instead of something staring me in the face saying 'I am too small to work on'.

One thing about this, as you've said, is the perspective. I can see what you were going for, but it might be better to just draw from a different angle. Maybe draw it so the you are seeing the front of the building, perhaps it has a door or an opening or a balcony or something. Just to make the picture feel a lot less flat. Also, if you change the perspective, it might help with the figures.

>>2762

Yeah. As long as I'm scrapping the original sketch, there's really no reason why I have to try to use the same angle on it. I'm thinking now I'll try something else with them, trying to get the feel I wanted a different way.

Guess I'll play around with some stuff, come back with art.

>>2753
Dude, are those poorly-photoshopped clouds? I can still see the rectangles from the original image borders where you copy-pasted. And it looks incredibly silly. You're obviously very new at this, and advanced critique isn't going to help much. So here is my advice.

1. Do not rush the drawing.

The clouds and the messily sketched lines (yes, even in the finished 'inked' images) in your previous uploads are indicative, to me, that you attempt to push out a lot of content without actually giving much thought as to the final image. You put out a lot of content, which is good, but drawing a lot and putting out a lot of content is worthless for improvement if you give no hard thought to what you are doing. Slow down, and consider each drawing for it's own value. Do not rush the image when you're frustrated, disappointed, or think that you have to fulfill some weird quota. In fact, you should...

2. Think harder about what you're doing.

Think: How is this image supposed to look when it's finished? What could I do improve about this image? Why does this look wrong? You need to think about how your work could be cleaned up, polished, streamlined, and displayed for an audience and yourself. You don't have to do it for every little sketch. But you have to think about how the final product would look like. And no, a flat-shaded figure with bad generic photoshop brushes and/or badly photoshopped clouds does not count, and I am absolutely sure I do not have to tell you this. The tone of your writing and the fact that you're posting here indicates that you're unsatisfied with the work you're doing now.

3. Keep improvement in mind when drawing.

Consider how each image is helping you improve at what you're doing. "Doing these color studies is helping me understand color better" "Drawing these figures is loosening my lines" "These faces are better than the ones I did last month" "This isn't as good as what I've done previously, but art is a learning process and I'm sure being in this rut now will make my work even better in the future - after all, I've already achieved the previous milestone". Saying these things to yourself (when they're true, of course) will keep you motivated and focused on success.

You seem very dedicated, so I wish you luck, and I do hope you take the advice.

>>2777
Thanks. (ugh, the clouds turned out ridiculous. It was a brush, yeah...) I am in fact very new to digital art after twenty-odd years of all sorts of traditional media, and I tend to feel like everything I do turns into a mess once I move past the rough 'penciling' stage.

I still tend to think the stuff I do by hand on paper looks better even though there's no way to edit mistakes once real ink is down, but I'm trying to stick with this digital art thing now that I have a tablet. I've just been kind of lost, and it seems like the only way to get anywhere is to make a lot of mistakes along the way.

(Also, now that I can't just lay a ruler down on paper, I find myself incapable of drawing straight lines, but I guess that much is pretty obvious)

Anyway, thanks again for the concrit. I tend to start a lot of things when I feel doodle-y and I should probably focus on slowing down and getting things to a finished place instead.

>>2778
Ugh, I wrote a longass post about media and common digital mistakes, but captcha deleted it. In short, I think the media type is the least of your worries, though limitations on traditional media often can make an image look better, in contrast to digital media which can do so much for you but a mistake stands out like a wet fart in a crowded elevator. I don't think you're struggling with a media change insomuch as a lack of solid foundations in color, composition, perspective and form (though you are making a few common digital newbie mistakes, so there's that). Those things will come with experience, but unless you focus on improving instead of being confused at the tiny changes, you won't be able to get there, and in fact most fledgeling artists never do. Which is sad. It makes me sad. I don't wish it on anyone else and especially not people who actually want to improve.

>>2781
Argh, sorry all that was lost. Still, what you told me has helped me re-think how I approach things.

So, scaling back, simplifying things, just working on a basic profile. Profiles have always been something of a weakness, but having a ref on hand made me feel confident enough to give it a try. When I feel more at ease with basics I can try putting things together in a larger piece again.

Also helped having the official colour palette on hand.

Not familiar with blur tool at all, but I tried to use it to get the highlights and shadows to feel less harsh.

Anyway, eventually I'll try drawing all the classes from different angles, and I'll try different sketches, different styles/effects with this one, play around with it a little until I have something I'm really happy with, before I try to take it someplace bigger.

Missed Spy day by almost two hours. Thanks, weird sleep schedule! Anyway, I've been working on Spy from different angles trying to get him down. Here's a full face and a three quarter, just at the stage where I've started going over the lines I want to keep.

Haven't finalized the lines yet, and, you know, obviously no colour/shading/texture/etc., but... using refs, trying to get the shape of the head right. Still kind of a mess because of all the early guide lines all over the place.

>>2792
Don't use the blur tool. It just makes things look sloppy and muddy. Learn how to actually block in colors, as well as how to actually shade things. This brings back what Serain said about actually learning the basics of art.

>>2802
I'm also the anon who posted previously about facial constructions and planes. This drawing is a mess. You've drawn a ton of "guidelines" all over the place, but they haven't actually helped you very much, since you don't actually know how faces are constructed. I stress again how you need to think of the facial features as being three dimensional and how they look different from different angles, but you're going to need to learn facial proportions and construction first.

I honestly think you need to learn from the ground up, and studying the TF2 art style when you're a beginner is a bad idea. I'm not saying to stop drawing fanart, but if you really need practice, you need to do it from real life or photographs (though you should always use a reference, even when drawing fanart).

Here's a face in 3/4 view, btw. See how his brow and cheekbones stick out? And how his mouth and nose sit in relation to the rest of his face? They look like a part of it, not as if they were drawn on a flat surface.

>>2792
This is actually am improvement. I hope you can continue in this direction, though everything anon above me said is quite right.

Did some cleaning/refining and colouring tonight.

Still could use work, for sure.

Anyway, thanks again to the couple of folks continually pointing me in the right direction. Got to spend some time the other day studying how muscles fit together, but nothing with facial structure, so this is still a bit lost.

(Hopefully, though, studying the anatomical shoulder charts will help me next time I need to attach an arm to a body. It's one of my past problem areas)

Feel free to redline, or even just to point to a spot that needs particular attention. I know I'm not there yet, but I have really appreciated the help.

And because I'm kind of sick of looking at that one I've been picking away at... Sketched this just because I needed to sketch something. Not happy with the Sniper at all right now... figured I might as well dump this here, though, since I think it's the most recent thing I've done with bodies involved.

Couldn't not draw, Sniper happened.

And then this.

Sketchiest lines down on a new piece.

Wow, it's been a while... Guess because I don't inundate you poor folks with every single practice sketch I do.

>>2912
Now that I'm getting a look at it with a little more distance, the hat is driving me crazy... after a few attempts, I thought I'd gotten it down a little better.

Also want to work on making Sniper look more... Sniper-y.

Mostly, though... any advice for fixing hat problems?

>>2912
Okay, the hat still doesn't feel right to me, but it feels better, and the Sniper feels so much better. The angle before was really awkward, and they seemed like they were existing on completely different planes.

Still haven't done any of the cleanup layers, of course. Figured I'd give people the chance to point out any big problems to me before I try that.

>>2914

Sniper has a pretty epic underbite and angular cheekbones (that are obviously hard to draw in profile, but they're definitely there).

>>2915
Thanks! Knew he was still not right, but it was starting to get late while I was working, so I figured it was best to take a break for the night and see if someone else could pinpoint my problems.

Finally got to work on this. Been busy, had little to no time to art. Really needed to tonight just for my own peace of mind as stress relief, wound up working on this piece.

Improved some of the lines, then went ahead and did a few layers of colouring. Obviously still working quite a bit on technique and whatnot, but it helped me relax to play around with it some.